Hey, I've been in a firefight before! Well, I was in a fire. Actually, I was fired from a fry-cook opportunity. I can handle myself.

Wash ,'War Stories'


Supernatural 2: Why is it our job to save everybody?  

[NAFDA]. This is where we talk about the CW series Supernatural! Anything that's aired in the US on TV (including promos) is fair game. No spoilers though — if you post one by accident, an admin will delete it.


Ailleann - Sep 25, 2009 11:37:44 am PDT #3652 of 30002
vanguard of the socialist Hollywood liberal homosexualist agenda

The author is probably having it beta-read now.


§ ita § - Sep 25, 2009 11:44:36 am PDT #3653 of 30002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I doubt Dean is even unburdened. I think he truly doesn't trust Sam and doesn't want all that brings, but I think he'd far rather have the old Sam with him than be alone, or even than have Castiel. He's just trying to work through (but not out, in true Dean fashion) what that not being possible means for the future.


Morgana - Sep 25, 2009 12:21:48 pm PDT #3654 of 30002
"I make mistakes, but I am on the side of Good," the Golux said, "by accident and happenchance.” – The 13 Clocks, James Thurber

I don't think even Dean would consider getting an angel laid on his last night alive as a good thing. Knowing Castiel, and seeing his reactions to other things and situations, I doubt that even Dean would have thought for a second that was something Castiel would want for himself.

Yes. And not to overthink it (who, us?) but considering Castiel is the only angel friendly to Dean right now, wouldn't it have made more sense to spend his last night getting all possible information from Castiel? What might be coming, what to expect, how Dean will be involved, more data about this whole vessel issue, things that would be more useful than getting laid?

The "Dayenu" line had me falling out of the chair.

I don't get the meaning of this. Obviously my pop culture databanks have a gaping hole. What it is?


brenda m - Sep 25, 2009 12:28:02 pm PDT #3655 of 30002
If you're going through hell/keep on going/don't slow down/keep your fear from showing/you might be gone/'fore the devil even knows you're there

How long was it before the fanfic hit the interwebs concerning what Dean did to make sure Castiel wouldn't die a virgin post-getting chased out of the bordello?

Pretty sure I saw that pop up on Delicious already this morning.

I have to quibble with something someone said earlier re Sam and the sideburns. Because Sammy was smoking hot last night.


brenda m - Sep 25, 2009 12:33:42 pm PDT #3656 of 30002
If you're going through hell/keep on going/don't slow down/keep your fear from showing/you might be gone/'fore the devil even knows you're there

I think once you willingly cross the line into performing human sacrifice, you deserve any amount of crap anyone else cares to give you afterwards regardless of how you rationalized the decision.

You're completely right about that. It's something I've been wishing Show hadn't glossed over so quickly, and I'm doing the same thing. Dean and Sam have both made some questionable choices in the past, some selfish ones, plenty of stupid or careless ones.

That, that was new territory. Starting the apocalyse wasn't his fault, I don't think, or Dean's, even though they both had a hand in it. They both can, and should, be forgiven, even by themselves. (Though getting there promises to be long and painful.) But Sam and his choices regarding that nurse. No. That's something I'd like to see him really grappling with.


P.M. Marc - Sep 25, 2009 12:38:46 pm PDT #3657 of 30002
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

How long was it before the fanfic hit the interwebs concerning what Dean did to make sure Castiel wouldn't die a virgin post-getting chased out of the bordello?

About the time the sneak peak came out? I think?

I mean, I know that's when we started making the Bert and Ernie reenactment jokes.


Morgana - Sep 25, 2009 12:54:08 pm PDT #3658 of 30002
"I make mistakes, but I am on the side of Good," the Golux said, "by accident and happenchance.” – The 13 Clocks, James Thurber

That, that was new territory. Starting the apocalyse wasn't his fault, I don't think, or Dean's, even though they both had a hand in it. ...Sam and his choices regarding that nurse. No.

Yes. Sam stuffing the screaming woman into the trunk of the car was just...chilling.

The other thing I have a hard time with, and that I don't see being discussed amongst the fen, is Dean's 10 years as Torturer's Apprentice. The fact that he broke and began torturing others I do not have a problem with. He was in Hell, he was undergoing unimaginable horrors, I don't think that his surrendering to avoid further suffering is unforgiveable. What I DO think is morally questionable is the rest of his confession, the "and I enjoyed it" part. I find that as chilling as Sam and the nurse.

Also, I want Dean to tell Bobby and Sam about the first seal. It's beginning to remind me of Xander's secret ("Willow says kick his ass.") We don't have another 4 seasons or so to wait for the payoff on this one.


Matt the Bruins fan - Sep 25, 2009 12:56:27 pm PDT #3659 of 30002
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand

That, that was new territory. Starting the apocalyse wasn't his fault, I don't think, or Dean's, even though they both had a hand in it. They both can, and should, be forgiven, even by themselves. (Though getting there promises to be long and painful.) But Sam and his choices regarding that nurse. No. That's something I'd like to see him really grappling with.

Yes. I'm fairly confident that if Sam hadn't followed her plan at every turn, Lilith would have had another way to get herself killed on that altar when the time came to release Lucifer–possibly leading one or more of the shoot-first-ask-questions-later angels there, or giving another hunter the Colt. And it's excusable that one might be tricked into playing into her hands under the guise of a chance to kill her - who in the know wouldn't try to take her out if given a chance to? But the decision to sacrifice an innocent person to achieve his goal, that was evil. Willfully, intentionally doing wrong of the worst sort, the kind of thing Sam and Dean have destroyed dozens of monsters for. And I see no signs as yet that Sam understands that, or feels guilty about making that choice rather than about the pragmatic effects that are resulting from his being tricked.


P.M. Marc - Sep 25, 2009 1:05:11 pm PDT #3660 of 30002
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

He was in Hell, he was undergoing unimaginable horrors, I don't think that his surrendering to avoid further suffering is unforgiveable. What I DO think is morally questionable is the rest of his confession, the "and I enjoyed it" part. I find that as chilling as Sam and the nurse.

I find it a more understandable and forgivable breed of morally questionable, though, as well as one that was textually acknowledged by the character as very much wrong and horrible. After 30 years of torture, I expect the power and channeling of rage into torturing others would be a head rush of the most viseral kind.


Matt the Bruins fan - Sep 25, 2009 2:27:22 pm PDT #3661 of 30002
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand

We've also not touched on the fact that the people Dean's sins were committed against were already dead and in Hell. Given that the demons devoted well over a century of subjective time to torturing both him and John in trying to fulfill that prophecy about breaking a righteous man, I'm not left with the impression that the place was particularly brimming over with undeserving people.

The emotional and metaphysical cost to the torturer is probably the same either way, but from a third party perspective it's a lot easier to forgive if it wasn't innocent people who were pleading for mercy.