And then, I miss those guys.

I do, too, sort of. But I love the way they've both grown and changed. Their characters now really illustrate how much they've faced over the last eight years.

Oh, I've enjoyed watching the growth and change, for sure--for the actors as well as the characters. It just struck me as kind of odd to feel nostalgic for a show that's still running. There's a kind of disconnect between those sharp, hungry actors and boyish characters of early first season, and the beat-down heroes of Season eight--a "WB show" that took an unexpected turn for the really serious. At least that's how it feels to me.

Are the special features under a spoiler window? I'm only on the first one, and I have some comments about it specifically, but it's also made me want to list the genre/"gimmick" (used non-derogatorily) or maybe trope (but more gimmick) episodes.

• paranormal reality
• the show is a story
• the show is a show
• found footage
• black and white monster movies
• time travel
• dream world
• WHAT THE FUCK IS CHANGING CHANNELS?
• cartoons
• body swap
• western
• virtual reality
• groundhog day

I think I'm not thinking of anything as specific as zombie movie...I think. Having a hard time with the bright line. And although I am not thinking of homages to specific movies, I consider Groundhog Day/Life Serial a genre/gimmick of its own by now.

What am I missing?

Bev, SPN struck me as way more serious than Buffy or Angel from the pilot. Mary was bad enough, but when Jess died? I remember being completely floored.

Hell House was the lightest episode of S1 for me, and even though Simon Said had a lot of funny, I remember being struck by Tall Tales as the first really broad comedy of the series.

I think SPN always felt a little more serious to me than Buffy, at least for a while, until Angel turned anyway, because the premises weren't that different, but the structure supporting them was. Buffy was in high school, Buffy was still going to dances and on dates and trying out for cheerleading, and she had the Scoobies from really on.

Whereas from the beginning, Sam and Dean had lost their mother violently, their dad was missing, and Sam was the only one living anything close to a normal life -- and that only lasted until the end of the pilot. They were so isolated and so alone and so rootless, it always felt grimmer to me, I guess.

What am I missing?

I'd have to look episode by episode. What you have there seems pretty comprehensive.

Angel for me was serious from the get go because Buffy had laid the groundwork--as you mention, with Angel himself. Now, though, you're confusing me as to when I knew Buffy was grim. I was thinking "always", but probably not. Still, I have no issues with WB and grim, (the Dawson-Pacey-Joey triangle was clearly SRS BZNS) despite the fluff they also aired. They made their bed.

But SPN--the boys' eyes have gotten harder, but it's Grim and Grimmer for sure.

What you have there seems pretty comprehensive.

We're lucky fucks. Xena and X-Files and Farscape, for instance, did genre play like this, but we have a good long run and writers determined to get as much in as possible. The commentary for Hunter Heroici mentioned they'd been trying to work out how to include footage from the anime which mightn't happen now that they've done that, clearly.

Watching As Time Goes By, I want to SCREAM at the John haters. Is Dean still suffering from Stockholm Syndrome, or has he had time to think about a lot the relationship and come to some mature conclusions (like Sam in The Song Remains The Same)?

Angel just also had that darker intro. Or something. I guess knowing that he had left Buffy behind for her own good made it sadder from the start, anyway.

(I've actually been jonesing for an Angel rewatch, which I've never done straight through.)

Is Dean still suffering from Stockholm Syndrome

I don't think so. I think he's been able to look at that relationship from a few different perspectives now, including as a father, and he's made his peace with it.

Also? Please witness my seething envy that you have the S8 DVDs.

Enh, don't be. My disc four is busted!!!! All I can see is menus, no good stuff (which means tablet documentary, Castiel doc, GAG REEL, oh, and the fucking show).

My sister is adamant that there is no ghey in the into to Aaron scene.

Oh, hey, Word of God commentary. Nice to see you! Go visit my sis. Bring Jensen with.

Intro to Aaron? Say again?

The scene where Aaron introduces himself to Dean? The directors describe the performance as having a rom com sense of potential to it (I think they may have used the word "bashful" oo, but definitely "rom com" and "potential" and mentioned Dean's loneliness), and that it was entirely Jensen's decision.

It's not just us being crazy--at worst, we have some professional company.