Bev, SPN struck me as way more serious than Buffy or Angel from the pilot. Mary was bad enough, but when Jess died? I remember being completely floored.

Hell House was the lightest episode of S1 for me, and even though Simon Said had a lot of funny, I remember being struck by Tall Tales as the first really broad comedy of the series.

I think SPN always felt a little more serious to me than Buffy, at least for a while, until Angel turned anyway, because the premises weren't that different, but the structure supporting them was. Buffy was in high school, Buffy was still going to dances and on dates and trying out for cheerleading, and she had the Scoobies from really on.

Whereas from the beginning, Sam and Dean had lost their mother violently, their dad was missing, and Sam was the only one living anything close to a normal life -- and that only lasted until the end of the pilot. They were so isolated and so alone and so rootless, it always felt grimmer to me, I guess.

What am I missing?

I'd have to look episode by episode. What you have there seems pretty comprehensive.

Angel for me was serious from the get go because Buffy had laid the groundwork--as you mention, with Angel himself. Now, though, you're confusing me as to when I knew Buffy was grim. I was thinking "always", but probably not. Still, I have no issues with WB and grim, (the Dawson-Pacey-Joey triangle was clearly SRS BZNS) despite the fluff they also aired. They made their bed.

But SPN--the boys' eyes have gotten harder, but it's Grim and Grimmer for sure.

What you have there seems pretty comprehensive.

We're lucky fucks. Xena and X-Files and Farscape, for instance, did genre play like this, but we have a good long run and writers determined to get as much in as possible. The commentary for Hunter Heroici mentioned they'd been trying to work out how to include footage from the anime which mightn't happen now that they've done that, clearly.

Watching As Time Goes By, I want to SCREAM at the John haters. Is Dean still suffering from Stockholm Syndrome, or has he had time to think about a lot the relationship and come to some mature conclusions (like Sam in The Song Remains The Same)?

Angel just also had that darker intro. Or something. I guess knowing that he had left Buffy behind for her own good made it sadder from the start, anyway.

(I've actually been jonesing for an Angel rewatch, which I've never done straight through.)

Is Dean still suffering from Stockholm Syndrome

I don't think so. I think he's been able to look at that relationship from a few different perspectives now, including as a father, and he's made his peace with it.

Also? Please witness my seething envy that you have the S8 DVDs.

Enh, don't be. My disc four is busted!!!! All I can see is menus, no good stuff (which means tablet documentary, Castiel doc, GAG REEL, oh, and the fucking show).

My sister is adamant that there is no ghey in the into to Aaron scene.

Oh, hey, Word of God commentary. Nice to see you! Go visit my sis. Bring Jensen with.

Intro to Aaron? Say again?

The scene where Aaron introduces himself to Dean? The directors describe the performance as having a rom com sense of potential to it (I think they may have used the word "bashful" oo, but definitely "rom com" and "potential" and mentioned Dean's loneliness), and that it was entirely Jensen's decision.

It's not just us being crazy--at worst, we have some professional company.

Oh, in the Gollum episode? Right.

Golem, but yeah.

I do have to say--they don't laugh at it or anything. They comment on it perfectly straight, as it were, which I think is subtly remarkable. Technically, this lead has spent seven and a half seasons being ostensibly straight (let's assume this is the first queering of the text, mmmkay?) and he acts sincerely flustered at same sex attention--not flustered because it's a guy, but flustered because he's taking it seriously, and they play it? Sweet.

That's what they go with.

Shrugging, moving onto the next scene.

I'm a bi-Dean fan, clearly, but not one that thinks we'll ever see it. The scope of serious the show handles seems to be pretty well-defined, and sexuality doesn't really seem to be something for the leads to dabble with.

But hey.

Well, now I need to watch it again. I loved it when it aired, for a lot of reasons, but I didn't think about like that.