My sister is asking me, as of Children Shouldn't Play With Dead Things, if Dean is an alcoholic. I've been pretty careful to only answer in her present tense, and give only sweeping ideas of changes (Sam gets a lot of perspective on Dean in season 5, that sort of thing), but I don't know how to answer that, because I wasn't wrapped up in his drinking that earlier, but I'm clearly obsessed now...

The two of us might just be related.

Here are liveblogging excerpts:

Everybody Loves A Clown:

This is totally realistic grieving. They're grieving individually the ways you would expect they would as characters, and they're responding to each other's grieving as a dyad the way you'd expect them to - recriminations, mis-understandings etc. Cos it's all based on what we know of them as brothers. For a split second early on I thought they'd gotten over it too easily. Not.

Bloodlust (she's a Gordon fan):

Sam's bangs are parting. Will see if there's any symbolic meaning as the season progresses.

"You can't just fill up that hole with whoever you want to." Unless, of course, that whoever is Cas.

like the idea of vampires as victims.

Ah, that's what black guy doesn't know. He says he and Dean are alike, but Dean would not have killed his sister if she had been turned into a vampire. And that's why Dean will always be a little grey, try as he might not to be. And that's what Sam points out at the end.

Children Shouldn't Play With Dead Things:

Ooh, Sam watching porn? Fully dressed? Really? He needs practice.

but I don't know how to answer that

Yes.

Functional and not nearly - are there levels of alcoholism? - as much as he will be later, but yes.

I'm enjoying watching your sister watch the show. Especially because it's so early. I'm okay with the fact that the earlier seasons are always going to grab my heart more than later. So thinking back through it is really fun for me.

I hadn't actually considered she'd enjoy it this much, or give it this much thought. It's my meta thing, and she has her meta things, you know?

But this is fascinating.

And resonates way more than the million of "insights" that come across my dash. Hey--Dean drank coffee twice this episode, so he's not an alcoholic anymore because coffee out of a mug means... I have no fucking idea, but he pours himself a whiskey before he looks up the dragon penis, so what is your point about him healing again? Who does that other than someone who drinks because they drink by this point?

It's brain-work. Only current alcoholics are going to likker up for research.

Okay, let me be clear--I'm not trying to be antagonistic towards Wincesters in general. Is there anyone here, though, that shares this person's viewpoint:

#I know a lot of people think Wincest is all about Sam and Dean being together sexually# But this right here# This scene is what Wincest is to me# Look at the sheer panic in Sams face# Look at the absolute loss he is feeling at his brother being gone# It’s panic and terror and he has no control and he can’t find Dean#and it’s his worst nightmare#It has always been his worst nightmare#Ever since he was a kid and Dean would leave him at Pluckys when he went on dates# It’s the fear of being without Dean#but more than that#It’s the fear that Dean will be without him# Sam will find him# and they wiill be together again# because that right there#is what this show is about#

Because nothing there bothers me other than the word incest. So I don't understand when someone says "it's not about the sex, it's the other stuff" and I wonder-why are they having sex, then? That doesn't accidentally happen--there has to be deliberation there. If you think incest is hot, or this pair of brothers fucking the shit out of each other (or gently making love) then I understand in a non-empathic way. But the explanations that say "not about the sex" seem to ignore how big a taboo is being crossed here, like it's no thing.

So I don't understand when someone says "it's not about the sex, it's the other stuff" and I wonder-why are they having sex, then?

Without the sex it's just fucked up family dynamics possibly turned to 11. Like political dynasties where the family and their power is the most important thing. They'll let personal relationships suffer or die so the family and its power remain strong. At least they do on tv. And probably in the Kennedys.

The only way I see into the incest is when they are so totally each other's entire world that other people never even flicker into it romantically and then sexually (or reverse that, either way). It's a far darker world than we've ever been actually shown. Flowers in the Attic dark.

If it's just about the other stuff, they might ditch love for family (hi, Amelia, bye) but they aren't having sex with each other.

edit: I missed words when typing.

If it's just about the other stuff, then I "ship" it too. Hell, I believe they're soulmates, for crying out loud. But incest isn't just 12 on the fucked up dial, it is the fucked dial.

I mean, when I say I enjoy Dean and Castiel's relationship without the sex, that's when I'm not wearing a D/C (Destiel, whatever) hat--that's something else. I think sex between two people is usually enough different that it's not casually added onto an interaction. I like 'em two ways--in canon and in bed.

Which is why I don't understand no-sex Wincest. It's not like they're going to be in love but wearing purity rings or something.

Oh, I think they are totally emotionally screwed but they aren't screwing canonically. They are each other's worlds but the rest of the world bleeds in and I don't think I'd buy it onscreen even if tv would ever go there.

I actually think it's why I don't ship D/C. I think they are weirdly, emotionally wrapped up in each other and it's probably confusing to them but I don't see it going romantic or sexual. I know why some people like it, ship it and want it. But I am kinda good with the onscreen relationship.

Which is why I don't understand no-sex Wincest. It's not like they're going to be in love but wearing purity rings or something.

Because that makes no sense? It doesn't to me.

I'm trying to work out what would an asexual D/C look like (as opposed to just not having sex) and maybe I don't have all the shades of subtlety to see non-platonic and non-sexual intimate relationships, but whatevs. It's the "incest where the sex isn't important" that I'll never get. I'd imagine if you ever sleep with your sibling, something is important about that. Because we live in the 21st century America.

My sister's rationale for alcoholism?

Well, he drinks when he's happy, he drinks when he's angry. It struck me in that ep cos he and Sam fought about something, and he stormed towards the door and when Sam asked where he was going, he said to get a drink. And they didn't show him having the drink, meaning it wasn't part of the plot, but they still wrote him as doing it. So, it just seemed a hint. And you said that Kripke drops hint[s] that he cashes in on seasons later...

I'd like to say I taught her that, but...she did the heavy lifting herself.

As much as Tumblr is the only social media I can handle right now, I hate how you can't really get up in someone's face. All those people who are wanking over the idea that two cups of coffee mean Dean's done the twelve steps--I want to shake screencaps in their face. But all I can do is post a rebuttal in a place no one reads and move on, just like my grumpy John defenses.

Maybe one day when the archaeologists look at the remnants they'll understand my unique position as fandom Cassandra. Except I'm telling the truth about the past ::shakes fangirls until their brains rattle::

Aww, S is totally doing the heavy lifting there. Even if it is describing how Dean's alcoholism is totally normalized in the show much of the time.

It's the "incest where the sex isn't important" that I'll never get.

Which? What the hell is that? If you are going that far emotionally, physically isn't the biggest leap. "We're totally involved and totally committed but totally chaste" is maybe the least Winchester thing I've heard.

Maybe one day when the archaeologists look at the remnants they'll understand my unique position as fandom Cassandra. Except I'm telling the truth about the past ::shakes fangirls until their brains rattle::

You're going to just use the one S, right? Because you could be the next Cas that way.

Incest, by definition, is about the sex. That's the dividing line. Like Cass says:

"We're totally involved and totally committed but totally chaste" is maybe the least Winchester thing I've heard.

...is ridiculous.