Once Cas got out of Purgatory, what else was he going to do go? Where was he going to go?

V. young JP playing MacGyver's nephew.

If the show weren't all about Winchesters? Back to the garrison. Do angel stuff. He watched Tiktaalik wander out of the water onto mud (which might remain my favorite throwaway line) to evolve into everything on land. Chuck the prophet is obviously dead (because Kevin exists) but might have been God for a while so that position might still be vacant. Or at least require some high-level meetings to discuss. Unless Chuck died and was revived and now it's like when there were two Buffys. Logically, I can't see where Cas automatically gets out of Purgatory and his only true place is with the Winchesters. He pushed Dean through the Gap when Dean and Benny escaped on purpose. He stayed in Purgatory to atone.

I mean, the show is Winchesters and Misha is great, so clearly he belongs with the boys. It's the way I want to watch the show.

Still Cas wasn't trying to escape Purgatory. Or get back to Dean whom he had always intended to not follow out of Purgatory. Cas got unexpectedly rescued and doesn't remember it and is working for Naomi whom he doesn't remember either.

I'll enjoy watching it but he's not operating under Free Will, to my eyes.

Wow.

I know I have an angle I watch from, but still...

Cas can't go to heaven, since he's directly responsible for laying waste to it and its denizens. Hell is out of the question, and he can't get back to Purgatory where he feels he belongs.

Unlike Earth, where he doesn't feel he belongs.

My reading of the Naomi conversation was that these were his first orders, otherwise why do you pull him out and just repeat the conversation you had a week ago, without referring to having had the conversation a week ago. If they wanted to tell us he had already gotten orders, that would have been in the episode.

It wasn't.

Occam's razor leads me to believe that whether or not Cas might have stayed (I vote he's got not much else to do, since he can get the answers to the TV he's enjoying so much), he went where he intended to go once he couldn't stay where he'd intended to stay.

Remember--he fled Dean, and pushed him through the wormhole (I was at a Stargate place before Carter showed up), but he also didn't have the nuts to walk away from Dean once Dean got all obsessive about him. He's not really that great about being away from Dean when it's a little less hard.

So, yeah, until the show explicitly tells me that was the n+1 time Cas got orders, I'm going to assume what I was told is what was true--and I'll take it as they feed me.

I do have two worries--one that his love for the Winchesters will allow him to break *angel* compulsion, or that he's Metatron. Or, hell, anyone is Metatron. I hate that sort of "surprise".

I almost pulled the trigger on this [link] and just realised...that's a little familiar, in different colours.

I draw the line there.

Hey...I have a line, guys! I found a line!

(I remember when I had no SPN shirts...)

So, yeah, until the show explicitly tells me that was the n+1 time Cas got orders, I'm going to assume what I was told is what was true--and I'll take it as they feed me.

There wasn't a version of the "Where am I?" "Don't you know?" "I've never been here before." between Naomi and Cas? Admittedly, I watched sick and on Sudafed but I did watch twice. Then deleted it so I can't check now or I would.

I know we watch from different angles. Which is part of what I like about this show.

My personal feels are that Cas yanked out of Purgatory does fall into hanging out with the Winchesters again. But more the guy who wasn't really paying attention and recites the names of prophets along with Sam.

Honestly, watching compelled Cas trying to "help" looks really amusing.

I still contend that it's not Free Will. But it should be a fun ep of Supernatural.

or that he's Metatron

Totally crossed my mind. Both times I watched.

There wasn't a version of the "Where am I?" "Don't you know?" "I've never been here before." between Naomi and Cas?

I'm not sure I understand the question.

Cas got orders to stay with Sam and Dean and help them. Which, to me, indicates that he's never before been ordered to stay with Sam and Dean. So the bit where he had been chilling on their sofa and helping out with Crowley? His own choice.

After that point, what he says is "Yes--if that's okay with you." pointedly to Dean when Sam asks him to stay on.

But, honestly, if Naomi hadn't happened, how do you expect he'd have answered that question?

I'm not sure I understand the question.

Okay, I need to dl so I can recall exactly / quote Cas' appearing in front of Naomi.

But, honestly, if Naomi hadn't happened, how do you expect he'd have answered that question?

I think he does stay hanging out with the Winchesters. But as a (admittedly traumatized) angel who missed tv but still recites the names of prophets along with Sam because all angels know that list of names. He'd stay, but would he suddenly want to become a "hunter" and play bad cop? That is where I see what I call him doing another's will and not making all of his own choices.

Huh, talking about this is making me care more than I did on my first viewing.

Oh and I loved Cas versus Crowley when we saw his wings again. He's an angel. That's cool to me. Cas trying to learn to be a hunter will be fun, I am sure. But I love when we are reminded that this guy is an angel with wings and power that are squished into something that looks human.

There wasn't a version of the "Where am I?" "Don't you know?" "I've never been here before." between Naomi and Cas?

I'm not sure I understand the question.

I was paraphrasing (because I was going from memory) the "Hello, Castiel." "Where am I?" "You don't know?" part that ends with "I've never been here before." when Cas appears in Naomi's office.

The "You don't know?" combined with what comes later doesn't make me 100% sure that he's never been there before. Just that he doesn't remember.

Between that and "Tell me about Sam and Dean." "[tells about Sam and Dean.] Why am I telling you any of this?" "That's not your concern. Help the Winchesters. Come when they call. You will report in to me regularly and you will never remember having done so." "No, I won't do that." *Naomi smirks* "Now, as you were."?

He gives a report on Sam and Dean even though he doesn't understand why he's even telling Naomi this information. He says he won't report back to her when it seems like, yeah, he's going to whether he wants to or not. And he doesn't remember being in Naomi's office this time.

All I am saying is that I don't think Cas has total free will happening right now.

Cas got orders to stay with Sam and Dean and help them. Which, to me, indicates that he's never before been ordered to stay with Sam and Dean.

Or that he doesn't remember. Like he doesn't remember being whisked away to Naomi's midconversation. I'm not really invested currently in whether this was absolutely the first time Naomi controlled his actions or motivations.

We opened this season being led to believe that Cas didn't make it out of Purgatory and went down fighting a fight he couldn't survive according to Dean. That's not what we're shown now. I am okay with the narrative evolving.

He'd stay, but would he suddenly want to become a "hunter" and play bad cop? That is where I see what I call him doing another's will and not making all of his own choices.

In this show, if you accept that Cas is going to the Winchesters, is Cas going to be a kept woman snacking on bon bons? The story is hunting. He's either doing that, or he's not in it.

I also have no real way to wrap my head around Cas on vacation, simply because it has no precedent. He has previously expressed a wish to be with the boys rather than doing heaven things, so the idea that he's doing it--it's like my boss telling me to go home at 5. Well, I was gonna anyway, but I don't consider myself coerced for any reasonable purpose.

Or that he doesn't remember

What's the point of giving him instructions that don't stick in some fashion? If she gave them to him before and he forgot them, then he's going to forget them this time too, and then it's free will all over again, isn't it?

Consider this scenario:

• Naomi meets Cas for the first time after he's rescued from Purgatory. She gives him instructions to find and shadow the Winchesters.
• He forgets, so she'll need to tell him again later.
• Free will.
• Profit?

Mine goes more like this:

• Naomi springs Cas from Purgatory, at great costs and angels are all over the place.
• Cas forgets the foofurrah.
• Cas tracks Dean and Sam down and starts working with them.
• Naomi gives Cas orders.
• Cas, under geas, never considers leaving Sam and Dean.

I don't really see a reason for a 1.1 where she gives him orders that she later repeats.

There is an immediate simple explanation for her giving him commands at the end of the ep, if we want to take the episode at face value, and that's how I'm going to read it. If they want to add to it later, I wouldn't even call it a retcon, though. Just that right now, him having been given the commands twice is as "not breaking the established rules" as him having had a group orgy with Naomi last time they met too. And just as necessary to the timeline, and important to his characterisation. No, we don't have information that contradicts it, but I also don't see the evidence from which to infer it.