I'm not going to complain, because I didn't know.

I have also encountered enough people who think Eve was Jesus' birth mother that...yeah, give someone the idiot ball. If the brother vs. brother is the motif they're dragging kicking and screaming from the grave to template on the Winchesters (because Cain and Abel weren't enough), I think you do need to be explicit, and not just for those of us that didn't take American lit--it's clear that there are a lot of people who don't pay much attention, and get through school anyway.

Personally, I thought the "brother against brother" remark was specific to the case, and Sam's reaction came more from recognition of personal experience than overall ignorance about the Civil War. Plus, its somewhat hamhanded use as a plot device later as motivation for possessing Dean.

I really loved this episode a lot. And i'm loving this season so far. Overall, the pacing may be off a bit and there are certainly nits to pick with an occasional turd now and then, but I'm rather savoring every delicious morsel. I love Sera and she rarely disappointed me as a writer, but the Leviathan storyline was abysmal. I think Carver will deliver the goods.

I really loved this episode a lot. And i'm loving this season so far.

::sits with Marcia::

I think the "brother against brother" line might have been used for the benefit of any of the overseas fans, or any of the younger audience who might not have gotten to that part of history yet. Just a CYA thing. I don't actually remember Sam reacting to it, and I think io9 suggested Dean did, so I have to rewatch. Off the top of my head, I don't think Sam would have been surprised -- I think it would be more like recognition, "Oh right, so we've got brother against brother here."

I also assumed the t-shirt was because they didn't feel like applying the tattoo for one scene.

That's just made me realise (and I think this counts as the world's weakest spoiler) that since Jared tweeted a picture of him with the tat holding TC, we get a shirtless scene somewhere in the not too far future... That would be nice.

Sam says "Wait--two brothers fight on opposite sides of the Civil War?" so I'm not sure how IO9 is giving the surprise to Dean, or at least only to him. And then it segues into Soundgarden.

I have no idea when Dean was supposed to be surprised. I'm not seeing a time where he's told this.

I do have to say, by the way, that Dean vs. Sam fight scenes are the funnest the show has to offer.

I seem to be in a minority thinking Dean and Sam have a...their second father died. Yes, the whole community lost a valuable member. But them acting like they lost something more, them acting super sensitive and proprietary? Absolutely. They don't have "official" keeper of the line status or anything, but if it had been John, would anyone have told them to stop being grabby-handed about it?

When Dean says "we won" before dropping the match--I wonder where he feels like he's from. Is that Kansas talking? South Dakota?

When Dean says "we won" before dropping the match--I wonder where he feels like he's from. Is that Kansas talking? South Dakota?

I was wondering that, too. Just general being on the side of unions staying together, maybe?

I agree that Sam and Dean had a deeper loss with Bobby's death, but they not have a monopoly on losing Bobby, which seems to me to be Garth's point.

This is what io9 said:

I love the bit where we learn this, and Dean actually says, "Brother fought brother in the Civil War?!" And you realize that while you were watching the Hitler Channel your whole life Dean was watching only anime so it makes sense that he doesn't know anything about Missouri.

Annalee is getting pretty sloppy with the recaps, but she clearly doesn't like the show much anymore.

When Dean says "we won" before dropping the match--I wonder where he feels like he's from. Is that Kansas talking? South Dakota?

Maybe ... anyone living the U.S. now "won" because otherwise the country would be a very different place?

I don't think Dean and Sam are at all wrong to mourn Bobby so intensely, or to feel that they lost a father figure. But it doesn't mean other people who knew Bobby aren't going to grieve for him, too. It's okay for them to be reminded that they're not the only ones who lost him, even if in their hearts they know their relationship was a lot more special than whatever Bobby had with Garth, or whoever.

I do have to say, by the way, that Dean vs. Sam fight scenes are the funnest the show has to offer.

Oh, ITA!! Love.

When Dean says "we won" before dropping the match--I wonder where he feels like he's from. Is that Kansas talking? South Dakota?

Yeah, obviously because I live in the area of the ep, and lived in Lawrence for 2 years, I have irks that are the picking of the nits. Kansas was called "Bleeding Kansas" because, although it was technically pro-Union, it was a hotbed, literally, of guerilla warfare on both sides: [link]

So if Dean obvs felt pro-Union because of his KS roots, and that I'm OK with that, factually.

I'm from St. Joseph, MO, and an ancestor had a barn that Quantrill's raiders used as a secret depot.

Also, FWIW, re: my irritation at the whole "Kearney is a redneck city in the south," Kearney is about 65 miles from Lawrence. @@, writers. Nits, picked.

I watched the episode again from where the librarian talks about the brothers to Sam and Garth, and no one tells Dean the precise deal from there on in--in fact, he doesn't know it's the penny either.

I can watch the front half of the ep again (oh, WOE is me...) but I'm pretty sure they didn't do the brothers thing twice. They like their anvils, but they're not that bad.

It's okay for them to be reminded that they're not the only ones who lost him, even if in their hearts they know their relationship was a lot more special than whatever Bobby had with Garth, or whoever.

Well, put it this way--if someone was "being Bobby" as opposed to filling a (vital) niche in the hunter community that Bobby left vacant, while doing their own bit of mourning, fine--Dean'd be OTT, But as well as doing the job that needs doing, Garth is aping Bobby, and poorly, and that shit is creepy. And I would totally yell and grab the hat and say if you're trying to BE BOBBY, Bobby wasn't like that, so stick it. They might know that's not a good Bobby imitation because they were close, or maybe they know because they have eyes and ears.

Oh, sure, Dean's "that's not how you say balls/wear that hat" objections were right on. That's why I like that little conflict, they were both right in some way and that's my favorite for drama.

I had the same reaction, because 1)I missed seeing the lovely torso my ownself, 2)Sam's never been shy about showing his skin, and 3)it led me to wonder if he's picked up some new scarring over the past year.

I think that they didn't want to bother doing the tattoo for a 10 second scene. Although they could have had him shirtless and her laying on his other side, thereby covering the tattoo. But, they probably know that there would be fans doing a frame by frame view and going apeshit if the tattoo wasn't there.