So, if it's that obvious a fact, how come the writers (presumably American) don't feel it's well known? Or are you saying that if you're bright (and law-oriented) you'd definitely know?

(He's the one that called Roanoke, so obviously he knows something about white people in funny clothes)

So, if it's that obvious a fact, how come the writers don't feel it's well known?

Honestly? I think the writers thought it was such a good, clever line that they had to shove it in the script. It's really well known.

(He's the one that called Roanoke, so obviously he knows something about white people in funny clothes)

Exactly. He's smart. Both of those dudes are.

Smart and informed aren't the same thing--if Dean expressed surprise I'd have flinched a bit that they might have been hammering dumb!Dean, but it would fit his character of sleeping through all the classes until his GED.

So the question is--since they have to hand someone the idiot ball, who needs to have it explained to them? Who can take the most hits? Without lampshading, I mean.

And why the SWEET HELL was post-coital Sam wearing a T in bed? Any sane woman having sex with him would want that lovely torso on full display. No matter HOW quick and torrid the sex. NUH-UH.

I had the same reaction, because 1)I missed seeing the lovely torso my ownself, 2)Sam's never been shy about showing his skin, and 3)it led me to wonder if he's picked up some new scarring over the past year.

And yes, the Civil War was all about 'brother against brother' in the history classes.

2)Sam's never been shy about showing his skin

Have we seen him wake up next to more than one other woman?

So the question is--since they have to hand someone the idiot ball, who needs to have it explained to them? Who can take the most hits? Without lampshading, I mean.

I wasn't clear. I don't think they had to hand anyone the idiot ball over the "brother against brother" bit. The audience overwhelmingly knows. I think a writer or staff person was just too in love with the phrase to cut it.

I'm not going to complain, because I didn't know.

I have also encountered enough people who think Eve was Jesus' birth mother that...yeah, give someone the idiot ball. If the brother vs. brother is the motif they're dragging kicking and screaming from the grave to template on the Winchesters (because Cain and Abel weren't enough), I think you do need to be explicit, and not just for those of us that didn't take American lit--it's clear that there are a lot of people who don't pay much attention, and get through school anyway.

Personally, I thought the "brother against brother" remark was specific to the case, and Sam's reaction came more from recognition of personal experience than overall ignorance about the Civil War. Plus, its somewhat hamhanded use as a plot device later as motivation for possessing Dean.

I really loved this episode a lot. And i'm loving this season so far. Overall, the pacing may be off a bit and there are certainly nits to pick with an occasional turd now and then, but I'm rather savoring every delicious morsel. I love Sera and she rarely disappointed me as a writer, but the Leviathan storyline was abysmal. I think Carver will deliver the goods.

I really loved this episode a lot. And i'm loving this season so far.

::sits with Marcia::

I think the "brother against brother" line might have been used for the benefit of any of the overseas fans, or any of the younger audience who might not have gotten to that part of history yet. Just a CYA thing. I don't actually remember Sam reacting to it, and I think io9 suggested Dean did, so I have to rewatch. Off the top of my head, I don't think Sam would have been surprised -- I think it would be more like recognition, "Oh right, so we've got brother against brother here."

I also assumed the t-shirt was because they didn't feel like applying the tattoo for one scene.

That's just made me realise (and I think this counts as the world's weakest spoiler) that since Jared tweeted a picture of him with the tat holding TC, we get a shirtless scene somewhere in the not too far future... That would be nice.

Sam says "Wait--two brothers fight on opposite sides of the Civil War?" so I'm not sure how IO9 is giving the surprise to Dean, or at least only to him. And then it segues into Soundgarden.

I have no idea when Dean was supposed to be surprised. I'm not seeing a time where he's told this.

I do have to say, by the way, that Dean vs. Sam fight scenes are the funnest the show has to offer.

I seem to be in a minority thinking Dean and Sam have a...their second father died. Yes, the whole community lost a valuable member. But them acting like they lost something more, them acting super sensitive and proprietary? Absolutely. They don't have "official" keeper of the line status or anything, but if it had been John, would anyone have told them to stop being grabby-handed about it?

When Dean says "we won" before dropping the match--I wonder where he feels like he's from. Is that Kansas talking? South Dakota?