But that's just my point! You she obeys! She obeys you! There's obeying going on right under my nose!

Wash ,'War Stories'


Supernatural 2: Why is it our job to save everybody?  

[NAFDA]. This is where we talk about the CW series Supernatural! Anything that's aired in the US on TV (including promos) is fair game. No spoilers though — if you post one by accident, an admin will delete it.


§ ita § - Nov 01, 2012 4:38:02 pm PDT #26783 of 30002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

If Sam were a real person, even one I didn't care about, I'd totally support his choices.

Instead it's a fictional character's choices I'm responding to, but one I'm disproportionately attached to. So while there's no real good chance he'd want to keep doing this, I want him to fictionally want to do it, and then I'd feel less like I was watching guilt tripping or non con. Or maybe it'll be the same Sam who said "Every time I left you it was wrong!" and Dean and the text just sat there and nodded and it wasn't! Sam made a perfectly legit higher learning decision, and I hate that the text is playing into Dean still giving him grief for that.

I mean, I've defended Sam's Heaven choices which were all away from his family, and I feel like I can't do that so much anymore. The times he gets headstrong, he's often leaving.

And I tuned in for the epic love story of Sam and Dean, not the epic emotional blackmail of Sam by Dean. Or Dean as the Littlest Hobo/David Banner, crisscrossing the country, never putting down roots, and teaching meaningful lessons wherever he helps someone.

Unrelatedly I also need notes so I can put down things like: DOESN'T WARN FOR MAJOR CHARACTER DEATH. Come on, be nice. That was just shitty and I feel shitty and I am not finishing the story.


Cass - Nov 01, 2012 4:42:16 pm PDT #26784 of 30002
Bob's learned to live with tragedy, but he knows that this tragedy is one that won't ever leave him or get better.

If Sam were a real person, even one I didn't care about, I'd totally support his choices.

Well sure. But I like their fairly emotionally unhealthy and crippled dynamic. That's what I tune in to watch.

Saving people, hunting things, the family business is not the long-term happiness road and the retirement benefits don't exist. It's usually not a road even leads to long-term breathing. But it's fascinating to watch.

I want my humans to make healthy, good choices. I want my fictional people to do the rest.


-t - Nov 01, 2012 6:11:47 pm PDT #26785 of 30002
I am a woman of various inclinations and only some of the time are they to burn everything down in frustration

I forgot about vampirates! Love that.

That whole exchange was great. "It's the third thing you say!" "No, it's not."

I don't have a dog in the meatier discussion y'all are having, just wanted to chime in on the vampirates.


§ ita § - Nov 01, 2012 6:34:19 pm PDT #26786 of 30002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I hated the "third thing you say" because we will never know the first two. ::shakes fist at sky::


-t - Nov 01, 2012 6:37:17 pm PDT #26787 of 30002
I am a woman of various inclinations and only some of the time are they to burn everything down in frustration

I thought the first thing was "vampires" and the second was "pirates"...


§ ita § - Nov 01, 2012 6:49:11 pm PDT #26788 of 30002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I was assuming you'd already been told vampires and pirates--well, at least vampires.


Cass - Nov 01, 2012 6:52:49 pm PDT #26789 of 30002
Bob's learned to live with tragedy, but he knows that this tragedy is one that won't ever leave him or get better.

I thought the first thing was "vampires" and the second was "pirates"...

1. Pirates, 2. Pirates of Transylvania and 3. Vampirates.

My vote, at least.


-t - Nov 01, 2012 6:58:51 pm PDT #26790 of 30002
I am a woman of various inclinations and only some of the time are they to burn everything down in frustration

I was assuming you'd already been told vampires and pirates--well, at least vampires.

Yeah, but after you've been told, you kind of repeat them back to yourself in a musing and thoughtful way to let the idea sink in.

Or maybe Blood-succaneers is in there somewhere, I don't know.


tiggy - Nov 02, 2012 4:29:39 am PDT #26791 of 30002
I do believe in killing the messenger, you know why? Because it sends a message. ~ Damon Salvatore

i'm just going to leave this here. [link]


§ ita § - Nov 02, 2012 4:57:52 am PDT #26792 of 30002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I'm more where Cass is. Saying what you've been told doesn't merit consideration.

To show how far off base I am with IO9, they called this the most homoerotic episode ever, because Sam was cast as jealous boyfriend, with Benny being usurping new lover.

Which...do I need to be more Wincesty to get that? I didn't think Sam was jealous, so much as confused and increasingly worried by Dean's continued vagueness, and it was a rational response to the things he let through.

Benny did not remotely strike me as a Sam replacement, despite his repeated use of the word "brother" and the title of the episode--he is a Cas replacement to me, and then not even.

Amelia is not a Dean substitute, because Sam's not romantically involved with Dean--he may have to choose between "indulging" in a romantic or fraternal bond, but that's not the same thing. Benny is not a Sam substitute--Sam is no longer battling a monster inside, and he's Dean's brother and will continue to be his brother in perpetuity. He might not always be the guy who fights beside him--but if he's going to get jealous about that, he can fix it by not quitting hunting--I did not get that read off it at all. Sam was mad because Dean was cagey, in peril, and then in cahoots with a monster. Not because there was homoeroticism (I actually see little to absolutely none Dean/Benny) or brother replacement. This isn't like the siren, and if Sam doesn't think Cas would replace him, why would Benny?