Exactly. Jensen has simply aged, the way people do, but he looks like the same boy who was in Days.

Someone needs to make this cat into Dean.

I'm getting nervous. Installed my new cable box, went to set my brand new DVR for Wednesday at 9pm, and suddenly channel 11 is no longer the CW/WPIX, but NFL ALL THE TIME!!! Not just the CW showing football, but NFLOMFG or something.

One of the new-SPNer (I consider them my responsibility, so this is sad) IO9ers moved to NY and he doesn't get the CW any more. Make sure it's in your service.

f*@#ers

Called cablevision up to cancel my TV service, and they assured me (fingers crossed) that WPIX will be back within days, days! and he threw in free movie channels for a year. So, hopefully I get lucky and it's back before Wednesday night, and hopefully iTunes is on the ball in getting new eps posted within 24 hours like they used to be. I'd rather not deal with the hassle of switching cable services and the trading of cable boxes and trips to UPS.

Note: Much of this post gets into thoughts that are mostly of a religious nature, so feel free to skip over if you'd prefer not to go there. Also, this post is longish. Possibly Nillyesque in length, although my aspirations to quality are no where near that high.

I've been mainlining, and can't believe that I'm already on S7. I got so close, and thought I might get caught up before the start of S8, but I'm actually backing off a bit at this point. I kind of scared myself yesterday, when I watched pretty much all day long.

I believe that we generally get what we need to from sermons, whether in church or not, but today the sermon seemed so on point to my last few weeks, with the concept of cutting out that which keeps you from god, that I resolved to take at least some of a break. So now I'm trying get some stuff done around the house and for myself before jumping in for the rest of the show. In an attempt to do that without the agonies of cold turkey, I've decided to write up some thoughts I've been playing with while watching. I apologize in advance if my writing is addled from non-stop watching. (I hate the drug analogy in SPN only a little less than the one in BtVS, but unfortunately the word addiction seems to fit for me at the moment.) So, without further ado, my thoughts:

Many shows, especially sci-fi/fantasy, seem to incorporate the exploration of religion as a major component. I've pondered the nature of god, religion, spirituality, and magic, in realms such as the various SGs, BSG, and Jossverse, or at least Buffyverse. In fact, I've actually refered to SG-1 in adult Christian education discussions at church. I find the concept of "gods" being more advanced and yet flawed, more like the gods of Rome, Greece, and Norse mythologies (and others, no doubt), to be intriguing. Clarke's law that, "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic," would fit in well here, despite the term magic. And I would argue that Joss's atheism, which informs so much of the Buffyverse, is a religion of sorts. Despite the lack of a deity, or possibly because of it, I find it very compelling. I think this is typified by the quote, “If nothing we do in this world matters, then the only thing that matters is what we do.”

On first glance, it seems that SPN would be a prime candidate for this type of thought and discussion, considering so much of the show deals with religious lore. However, as I watch, I've generally not been able to find insight into my own religious beliefs through the show, even comparatively.

The religion I find in SPN seems to primarily deal with its accoutrements, what I think of as superstition. That is, the hocus pocus of words, symbols, and motions is more important than any sort of true belief or faith. This can be seen in the characters - Sam's faith, at least in S1, contracts with Dean's lack, but neither seems to make either of them more effective. This can also be seen in actions - exorcisms work when the incantation is completed, whether or not one believes, or even understands, what one is saying. This doesn't even include the apparently magical and purifying qualities of salt, fire, and iron, and later borax (who knew!), which, since they're more physical in nature and their benefits seem to be more mechanical or chemical than symbolic, I've given a pass.

Ethics seem more important in this world than religion or faith, but even ethics are awash in moral ambiguity here. I enjoy ambiguousness as much as the next girl. Life is ambiguous, and bringing that ambiguity into my fiction helps it feel more real, more relavent to my life. But, I find it very frustrating when the characters seem to lack even a consistent ethical goal: Sam is censured for his actions with Ruby and Lilith, even though his motivations are positive, even altruistic, and his actions seem at least arguably logical, given the information he has available. But Dean is basically given a pass by everyone, with the possible exception of himself, for actions - torturing souls - (continued...)

( continues...) that he knew to be evil at the time, and that he enjoyed.

This has bothered me throughout, but today we had a scripture in church that brought it home to me even more. From Mark:

"John said to Jesus, 'Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in your name, and we tried to stop him, because he was not following us.' But Jesus said, 'Do not stop him; for no one who does a deed of power in my name will be able soon afterward to speak evil of me...for truly I tell you, whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because you bear the name of Christ will by no means lose the reward.'"

What does this mean? I suppose it could argue two things. I see it as saying that actions are important. That faith is important insofar as, well, intentions, but that dogma is really not that big of a deal. To me, this argues for Sam's actions. It can also mean that faith is not important at all, I suppose, which would, I suppose, explain why Dean can do exorcisms without faith.

By the way, the same reading from Mark ends with: "For everyone will be salted with fire. Salt is good; but if salt has lost its saltiness, how can you season it? Have salt in yourselves, and be at peace with one another." I don't see any connection between this and any of what I wrote above, but...SALT!

I think Sam was judged for hubris more than anything else. And everyone's hesitant to judge a torture victim for breaking, especially since 30 years of hellish torture is incomprehensible--the position is clear that Dean held out longer than most people could (bar Dad, thanks for fucking him up again, John! (kidding)) and expressed immediate remorse and self-disgust.

Now, when he goes back and tortures (but not humans) that was judged at first (The End), but later became fairly ho hum.

So Sam was choosing to do things he was (later) told were morally compromised, and once Dean was back, part of his motivation was "only I can do this" as well as "I must take this burden from my brother, for he can't do it, and he shouldn't have to, after all that." I don't think Dean yelled at him for that, but that's what I took away as the text calling him on.

Libkitty, I take it you are arguing the Joss's atheism in particular is a religion, rather than atheism in general? If so could you clarify?

Typo, yes, that was what I was arguing. I think it really depends on what you think about religion. Clearly, if it requires a god or gods of some sort, then no atheism would fit. However, I think of religion more as a framework for living in such a way that life means something more than itself. I see this in Joss's atheism. I see it in many others' atheism as well, but not in all atheism. I guess for me it's more of a "you know it when you see it" argument, but some factors that are important to me are:

• an ethical framework
• faith in something outside of oneself (This is not necessarily god or a higher power, but might be humanity. For me, the key is that you believe strongly in it. So, for example, I don't see how agnostics could be included.)
• a desire to share your understanding (this might be evangelism for many, including some atheists, but it might be as simple as showing what you think is a good way to live, by example, and sharing your beliefs on request)

Having said all of this, I've thought about this for a long time, but this is might first time writing any of it down, so I very much welcome feedback and discussion, and can well imagine that my opinions and perspectives might change as a result.

Gluten-free rice chex:

ita, I see what you're saying about hubris, and agree that it may be the subtext, but what I noticed is that they (almost everyone) were down on Sam for drinking demon blood and listening to demons, particularly Ruby. This did, indeed, turn out to be a bad move, and one might argue that he should have known that it would be. But, given how obnoxious the angels were, and how much they lied, if only by omission, it doesn't seem a stretch to come to the conclusions he did.

It seems to me that the hubris was more a result of the mistakes he made than a cause of them, and that it grew more out of trying to justify his decisions in the face of what must have seemed like unwarranted attacks instead of rational discussions on alternate possible courses. Of course, while I get much more woobly with Dean, I seem to relate more to Sam, so I might not be looking at this completely rationally myself.

eta: I just re-read, and I wonder how much of my different connections to Sam and Dean are a result of me being the youngest sibling in my family. Hmm.