I never understood why Sam & Dean never tried to make the Starks allies. Yeah, not exactly safe. But they know how to put Leviathans under with a short spell. Hell, at the very least they could have found something Don wanted in return for teaching them the spell!

unless the company goes under

They're rudderless now, and we also left with the expectation that Sam would destroy the factory. Do you think it'll be likely he failed?

I don't really expect much from them in terms of leaving ongoing danger from the Leviathans. It felt to me like they were taking the thunder out of them, leaving stronger than usual monsters, but no big conspiracy or anything.

I really don't hope they work with the Starks. What I don't understand is why they didn't kill them. Amy doesn't get to live, but they do? Did they even make any promises? That episode was a miss for me. I know they seem to hamstring them when it comes to witches, but I really don't see why, other than meta-hesitation to kill humans. If they could use lethal force against Benders, is it a matter of them being overpowered?

But it's not even a Crowley-esque situation.

I don't know. It all left a sour taste in my mouth.

I got a reply to a comment today that I hadn't remembered writing--I don't even remember the fic. Which is nice, because I got to read it again like it was the first time, but...kinda weird. It was only a couple weeks ago.

There's a WIP I'm reading right now that's remarkably off target. It's not like she's wildly bad, with massive spag problems, but she has no idea how to pace, there's no rhythm in the narrative, no accuracy with the voice, and it also feels like she really just doesn't understand people. Her high school AU painting the Novaks (all the angels and demons) as the privileged kids is just all over the place. I mean, they're supposed to be human, as far as I can tell, but I'm gathering this chick has never met people.

And she's 12. I mean, anything to explain her limited perspective. But I can't look away.

I don't want them work with the Starks now. But once they decided to let them live (because they were too tough to kill and it was likely to turn out with the boys, not the Starks dead) I don't know why they did not turn them into allies or at least make a short term deal for the "stun leviathan" spell.

I was talking about then, when the Leviathans were being an issue. If they'd demonstrated they could end the Leviathans, I'd have considered it a retread of every other deal with the devil they've done, but since they couldn't do that I would feel it was even more of a moral compromise than NOT PUNISHING THEM IN ANY WAY FOR MULTIPLE MURDERS.

What the fuck is the justification of that? I'm at a loss.

Another aspect of that I didn't like is that these witches can apparently incapacitate Leviathans with a twitch of their noses, but freakin' angels are powerless against them. Because based on everything else I've seen on the show I would have thought the hierarchy of mystical power would go angels > pagan gods > demons > human witches.

I can see where witches might bump up against demons, since they were centuries old, weren't they? I'd imagine a large number of demons are way younger than that.

But the whole witch-handling on the show doesn't work for me. I think they punked out, and with lack of follow through seems to be lack of fleshing the mythology out.

Even when witches die, it's usually by their own hand -- with Patrick's girlfriend in The Curious Case of Dean Winchester, and even in It's the Great Pumpkin, the witch had summoned Samhain by the time Sam got to him.

Okay--human opponents:

• The Benders: They kill at least one of them, right? And Missy lives?
• Curious Case: one suicide, one walks
• Great Pumpkin: They kill 1, 1 becomes Samhain
• Swap Meat: 1 kid dies, 1 gets possessed and purged, and Gary walks
• The Starks: Sail off into the sunset
• Kids in the Walls: What's the name of that ep, again? Do they kill them both?

Which ones am I missing?

Family Remains. I think those could be rationalized as self-defense, though.

And do they kill the female witch in Great Pumpkin? I can't remember now -- I thought the Samhain guy killed her.

Family Remains is the kids in the wall, right? Supergirl?

Let me look up the Pumkills ba-doo-cha! Try the waitress and tip your veal!

Sam shoots Don to prevent him harming Tracy. Tracy finishes spell, Samhain rises in Don and kills Tracy.

Okay, I've been seeing double for the past five hours. I can't stay on the computer.