I'm just so attached to the idea that Dean, basically, was never domesticated. The year with Lisa was (miraculously) not alienating a woman, and being a good role model for a kid. This he can do. But actually have an honest to god friendship and he is effectively raised by wolves (...oh, jesus, it's called Wolfpack, Amy, and we're totally thinking of the one story: [link] by tabaqui...anyway back to Dean) he has no idea how to act, and is simultaneously the best and the worst friend ever, because he takes so much for granted--both in what he'll get and what he'll give, but he has no grasp of the niceties and social lubricant. Sam and Meg, both, on the other hand, do. They've both had to work with people to get stuff, but Dean somehow, just uses them. Or gives to them.

And, yeah, when the split comes between him and Cas he's totally hypocritical, because everything that comes out of his mouth is "you don't work with them!" but everything his eyes are saying is "you work with me!" which aren't really the same things at all.

Yes! Wolfpack! Give the lady a prize.

See, it depends by what you think of as domesticated. Dean was essentially Sam's mom for a long time -- that kind of around-the-house domestication was probably more forgotten than totally foreign when he moved in with Lisa.

And I think you're not giving him credit for enough of the social lubricant, either. As a con artist, more or less (or at least sometimes) he has enough of that charm to fake it. He didn't have a problem with Sid, for instance, when Sid wanted to be neighborly.

Some of the more egregious things -- like the way he was so blatantly interested with Jessica in the pilot, for instance -- is purposeful, I think. and the other stuff isn't social lubricant as much as a narrower knowledge base about the the world that isn't fighting off ghosts, such as not knowing what a PA was.

He didn't have a problem with Sid, for instance, when Sid wanted to be neighborly.

I doubt he was close to Sid--he could socialise, but that's not the same as being a good friend. And that's why I draw a line between...well, maybe I should say he does know how to act, but has a harder time with how to be, if I can mangle more expressions.

I have no difficulty imagining that he was putting on a role for the year with Lisa, and has never put up any consistent image for Cas, and who he was/is for Sam is just him. Anything he had to be for a Winchester he really was. But if he's not allowed to admit or act on his hunterly instincts, I don't know if you can ever call it a sincere relationship.

I have no doubt he was doing his best for Lisa and Ben, but he was going against his nature just by not hunting.

Okay, that I get. With Sam and Cas both (even with Bobby), he is pure Dean, unfiltered. Probably not so with Lisa and Ben, even if it was closer to truth than it was with Sid, for instance.

One of the things I find heartbreaking about Dean, though, is his eagerness to please. With Lisa especially, I can see that being the prime motivator in making the eggs and taking out the trash -- playing the role as expected.

Of course, he's not like that with Sam or Cas or Bobby, because that's "family", all the way.

And I don't want to cast aspersions when it comes to Lisa, but that choice and Dean I don't think could be honest or work out. She's got priorities and responsibilities that are just not compatible with his with no value judgement attached. He is a hunter. He might not value it or respect it, but if he's honest he enjoys it and it fulfills him. And he's not going to be at peace until he works all the way through it. And he just can't have any real relationships while suppressing or denying that. Sam's a brother, Bobby's a father, and they don't really have a choice (they do, but you know what I mean). Cas, in a way doesn't have a choice--he's not supposed to choose Dean. But he keeps doing it. Even when he works with Crowley he's choosing to save what Dean values, and protect Dean from the fight at the same time. All Dean, all the time. And Dean? In no way values or acknowledges that because I don't think he understands that people can choose him. So he doesn't try and facilitate it in any way because he's never had to negotiate a relationship and that's why the repeated looks of betrayal on Cas' face break my heart so much. One choice he's made, and Dean's a dick about it. And he fucks it up so badly he has to get Dean's forgiveness anyway--who's taught him relationships other than Dean?

Also..blah blah blah...feels.

That's true -- everyone he loves is generally obligated to love him (in his eyes), or wants something from him. And his only previous more-than-one-night (or weekend) relationship was with Cassie, who rejected him because of what he was.

I think he was more honest with Lisa than he might have been if she hadn't seen for herself what he did, but I absolutely agree that he never would have been totally comfortable with that life. I got the strong impression from the first two episodes (three maybe?) of S6 that he really did love her, and Ben, and that there was certainly an element of that life he enjoyed, so I don't think he was completely unhappy. But the look on his face when he uncovered the Impala to join Sam again really said it all.

Hell, Sam just gave birth to Gabriel's baby, and I thought "Oh, well, I've gotten this far..."

Was it at least an actual baby? I can't figure out where people have come up with egg-fiction. Because the guys have sex with angels (who have wings) when they manage to get themselves pregnant, it's with an egg? Because angels are part bird, maybe? I've pretty much given up on all mpreg.

There's a hellatus hurt!Dean prompt up

Just as an FYI, there's also a Coment Fic Meme for both Sam and Dean starting up on LJ.

He loved her as much as he could? I don't think it was enough for a conventional, committed, adult relationship. Not least of all because it was so dramatically less than he loved Sam, of course. Which doesn't inherently make the amount he loves her low, as much as ridic OTT Sam-love. And if she's not totally okay with that, they can't be okay, and it's another way in which he can't be himself.

(Needless to say my favourite D/C includes Cas totally getting he's at best #2 in priorities)

Basically, if you end up with Dean in a world with no Sam or Cas, is he really able to consent?

And I do kind of mean that, mostly the missing Sam part.

Was it at least an actual baby?

Gabriel fisted it out of his soul?

It was really sudden. I somehow missed the premise of the WIP, that it was pair bonding for angel reproduction...

Absolutely, Dean's love for Lisa is nothing like his love for Sam, in intensity and history and all kinds of stuff. I appreciate that he genuinely liked and respected her (which doesn't always go hand in hand with love, and is just as important, to me), but I would be willing to say he was mostly *in love* with the idea of being in love, being in a relationship like that, since he never had been before, and hadn't really dared to want it since Cassie.