I can see very young Dean (like, fifteen or sixteen) totally falling in love, hard.

I'd make him younger than that--early enough that it's probably not "real", so that by the time he's fifteen or so, he's fully in defensive Lothario mode. Maybe he has a crush at 12 or 13, and is stereotypically Sammy-sappy, and gets hit really hard (I can't decide where to lay the blame--is it all on them moving, ergo eventually John, or does he get judged based on appearances, and decides to make appearances true?), so he slides into exactly what he's capable of, twisting targets around his finger without letting him into his heart.

But not dickishly! Consensually.

it came across as not naturally hardened (although there was some of that) so much as steeling himself against emotion, because it would all hurt too much.

I'm guessing that some people found the torture a point of no return (no pun or correlation intended), but I'm abashed to say I didn't consider it a complete ruination of his character.

tiggy, I stole this from your Facebook feed: [link]

Oh, DEAN. Of course we should.

I'd make him younger than that--early enough that it's probably not "real", so that by the time he's fifteen or so, he's fully in defensive Lothario mode.

That young, it's so not real that I don't know if you learn from it. It has to *feel* real, I think. So maybe an older thirteen or fourteen.

Since the End!verse came after Dean was rescued from hell, the torture didn't surprise me. Or sadden me, really. Maybe it should have, I guess.

it's so not real that I don't know if you learn from it.

In my head, he's getting the rejection lesson before he has learnt the love lesson, so he protects himself from ever actually loving as long as possible, proactively. So he's young, naive, hopeful, and somehow shut down and excluded from affairs of the heart when he's too young to understand how important they might be, and the walls come up early.

It's not even really learning, in my head. It's getting scared, good and early.

Man, I read an odd D/C endverse fic that was really D/D with voyeur C. Somehow they almost managed to pass off Dean's narcissism (getting pretty literal with the term) as normal curiosity. With the balance of how much he's changed in that time too.

I feel vindicated in Dean torturing with reasonably little hesitation later, but I think the original positions of the ficcers were that he was even less likely to torture after Hell, because of the trauma associated with being expert at it and needing to be rescued. Shame of the fallen Righteous Man. Valid point, but not what occurred to me at the time.

Seriously, did I miss the IO9 recap? They've recapped Monday shows, but not Supernatural? The fuck?? I can only believe I scrolled past it. That's ridic. Or maybe Annalee hasn't posted recently? I don't always check bylines.

No, I've been checking and I don't think she posted one.

Well, on other website, D/C lost the poll, like I thought it would. It was probably D/C shippers using bots in the first place. Anyhoo.

I just saw this quote from Misha for the first time, on them beating Jeff/Annie:

"So often Hollywood and pop culture portray relationships that don't reflect real life and relationships that lack a moral compass. I think it's nice to see a stable couple with grounded values getting this attention over that perverse relationship between Joel McHale and that girl on that other show. I mean, look how they're kissing. It's disgusting—you can tell they're not even using tongue."

Yeah, I get a kick out of that crazy little attention hoor.

Did E! go ahead and acknowledge Cas and Dean as a win or is it still wrapped up in voter scandal?

They lost, like I said.

Yeah, apparently the Rachel/Quinn supporters won the vote by a huge margin. Which surprised me, as I'm in the edges of Glee fandom and that's not a pairing I've seen a huge amount of support for. But hey, whichever fandom has the largest/most determined base is the winner.

There's a voracious batch of Rachel/Quinn shippers (or Faberry, because smush names never really leave us, they just get reimagined), and there was some rumor that they were also using bots.

t /checking in from slightly deeper in Glee fandom