What the guy seems to mean is "don't bring people back from the dead, even if they're still dead".

I pointed out that he's a star, and it's much like Buffy dying--it's about the consequences, not the idea that they'll never come back.

Then he said they were no consequences, which I think is objectively bullshit. Not enough? Not the right ones? Maybe. None, or none but his end of season breakdown? Not so. He's still seeing Lucifer up through the first hiatus. How much do you want? And Dean is still drinking away his own death, as well as the deaths of everyone since then, whether they came back or not.

Ellen coming back wasn't consequence free--they had to annihilate her. Jo wasn't alive, and came back into Dean's life to make him feel like shit and then die. And then she left.

Cas's first death had a revelation, his second changed his character and his character's position markedly.

I'd say that Bobby's first death was completely consequence free. And that's the only one I can think of right now that meant nothing for the character or the people around them or the plot.

Yeah, without Sam and Dean there really isn't a show. You don't kill one of the two stars, not on a show like this.

Did people really think Buffy wasn't coming back? Do people realize this is TELEVISION?

Sam's death had plenty of consequences, if you ask me. For Dean and for Sam.

Yeah, that's a not very well thought out argument. Maybe the writer didn't get the consequences s/he thought were appropriate, but there sure as hell were plenty of consequences.

there sure as hell were plenty of consequences.

Yes, and I also don't think the show is done feeling out what those consequences are.

The local CW didn't air the ep until 6pm tonight. I suspect a conservative had a hand in sabotaging the show. I didn't "know" he was going to die until he called them idjits. That was a good death, a heroic death that Bobby deserved. Tonight was truly a love letter to "Uncle Bobby".

Also, Jared made Sam look about 12 years old as far as being a scared kid at the hospital. I've seen JPad do some good stuff, but tonight may have been among the best.

I have to go cry some more.

Also, Jared made Sam look about 12 years old as far as being a scared kid at the hospital

I was thinking that the last time he sat vigil at a hospital would have been for John and Dean, right? And at that time he lost John and almost lost Dean, so he has really negative associations with hospitals anyway, and then he's losing Bobby right in front of him... So yeah, I can see why he'd be looking scared.

I've also been thinking that as much as we all enjoyed wallowing in the angst after the death of John, I hope they don't follow the same path this time. (The one where the guys don't talk to each other for several weeks until Sam finally tries one too many times and Dean explodes and then punches Sam in his grief and anger. Been there, done that.) Not that I don't want pain and angst and memorializing of Bobby -- his loss should have a huge impact. I just want them to react to his leaving in a different way than they did for John.

He did such a good job with it that I crossed over the sanity barrier and thought, "they better get some support for him for when Gen has the baby".

Nevermind, he's an actor, you know, acting, and I temporarily lost my mind.

I think Dean's "Sam? You gotta carry *me*!" in Bobby's scrapyard was prophetic. I think, despite his issues with his wall falling, hallucinations still going on (I wonder what, or who, he was seeing in the waiting room when he was squeezing the scar on his palm?) Sam's actually developed some coping mechanisms. It's a lot to cope with, but he has them.

Dean, on the other hand, has always been so busy taking care of other people and plowing forward to the next thing and getting done what needs to be done he's neglected or avoided devising any sort of coping strategies. I think avoidance has gone as far as he can push it. I think he's going to fall completely apart, and I think Sam's finally going to have to carry Dean. I also think Sam's been waiting to do that for a long time. And I think more than anybody on earth, Sam's up to the task.

I wonder what, or who, he was seeing in the waiting room when he was squeezing the scar on his palm?

I'm not sure he was seeing anything. I think he was doing it to make sure Bobby dying wasn't a hallucination. I mean, seriously, isn't that something Lucifer would do to fuck with him, make it look like someone was dying when they weren't? So, he squeezed his hand in hopes that it was all just a nightmare, but no.

Pressing on that scar is probably a habit now, too. A little pain to keep him in the moment and focused. I don't think he's seeing Lucifer every time he does it.