Look, you got a little stabbed the other day. That's bound to make anyone a mite ornery.

Mal ,'Ariel'


Supernatural 2: Why is it our job to save everybody?  

[NAFDA]. This is where we talk about the CW series Supernatural! Anything that's aired in the US on TV (including promos) is fair game. No spoilers though — if you post one by accident, an admin will delete it.


§ ita § - May 07, 2011 3:58:59 am PDT #19626 of 30002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Did Cas actually tell Team Free Will that if Raphael wins, it's Armageddon 2.0?

Yes. I'm pretty sure it's been made clear that Raphael wants to restart everything. Either he said so, or Cas did.

I get why Dean is so gutted, but I'm unsure about everyone else. Dean has betrayal/abandonment issues up the wazoo, and one of the three people (I note he didn't call Ben and Lisa family, which is incredibly sad) in his orbit is majorly lying to him.

Bobby? Maybe because Crowley decided to gallivant off with his soul?

Maybe Sam gets that Crowley can't be on the up and up?

But mostly, I think Dean is operating out of deep hurt right now, and that's pretty typical.

If Cas had gotten Sam all the way out of the cage, would he have copped to it (he should have gripped him tight too, dammit, not just raised him from perdition)? How was Samuel resurrected?

I guess that's also it--Cas didn't only lie, he manipulated them. Maybe if they'd been collecting monsters for him, it wouldn't have been such a miserable part of Dean's life.


Matt the Bruins fan - May 07, 2011 4:29:31 am PDT #19627 of 30002
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand

Crowley referred to having Samuel ready to put back in play when pitching the monster hunt to Cas, so apparently I was right about him not being pulled down to earth at the same time Sam was pulled up.


§ ita § - May 07, 2011 4:34:39 am PDT #19628 of 30002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Then I need to know why he went to Hell. There needs to be more explanation there.

I've been reading a lot of D/C fans who were going to picket Sera's house because she obviously doesn't understand the show and was going to ruin Cas and are ruining our beautiful beautiful ship.

I haven't seen any of them take it back today, but I'm sure this episode was entirely Edlund's doing, and had nothing to do with the larger creative team, especially the showrunner, and Gamble still doesn't get it, and is maybe only on probation.

But by and large, D/C and Casfandom seems happy with the ep.

I'm also reading a number of people of more uncertain provenance who think it was the worst thing ever and the show is ruined forever now because an unimportant side character got focus for an episode (note, I wasn't looking in the same places for Bobby's episode, but I doubt they reached these heights of frenzy) and Edlund is a crazy D/C shipper and shouldn't be let anywhere near a keyboard and OMG they're boycotting the show.

I like Supernatural. A lot. It takes up more of my brainspace than it should. It makes me happy and sad. But some of the more vocal contingents of the fandom continue to scare me, and not just the everlasting "canon supports brotherfucking" arguments. Seriously, people? Is this rewarding for you? Look at your life, look at your choices. This froth can't be good.

eta: Now I can't wait to read Sylvia Bond (pinkraygun)'s response to this. She despises Castiel and D/C. She must have been livid.


Anne W. - May 07, 2011 4:57:22 am PDT #19629 of 30002
The lost sheep grow teeth, forsake their lambs, and lie with the lions.

Then I need to know why he went to Hell. There needs to be more explanation there.

I wonder if dying while demon-possessed (didn't Samuel keel the instant Azazel left his body?) would have something to do with that.

some of the more vocal contingents of the fandom continue to scare me

Oh, yes. This. I was lurking in one place I would normally never go (to see reactions to the BB summaries and claims) and... yeesh. I have a similar feeling towards large parts of my other main fandom. There are people there who become so invested in one particular aspect of a show, be it a character or a pairing, that they feel they own it more that the creators do. I just don't get it.

ETA: ita, did you ever hear from your BB author?


§ ita § - May 07, 2011 5:05:43 am PDT #19630 of 30002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

they feel they own it more that the creators do

Yes! I laugh and roll my eyes everytime someone says that's not how the show is supposed to go. Guess what? We just get to like what we like. How it should go, what's the theme of the show, who are worthwhile characters to explore--that's up to people not us.

Anne, haven't heard from them yet. Don't like waiting. Why wait? It feels like a really short period for me, and I work pretty quickly. But I need to get a beta, etc, and I can't do that without more information.


Matt the Bruins fan - May 07, 2011 6:41:59 am PDT #19631 of 30002
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand

Then I need to know why he went to Hell. There needs to be more explanation there.

My take is just that he turned out to be a pretty much ruthless and self-serving guy despite being a hunter. We've certainly run into hunters that weren't good people before.


§ ita § - May 07, 2011 6:47:21 am PDT #19632 of 30002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Yeah, but he's Mary's father. I don't think you send him to Hell without justifying that in the text. Surely Hell is a bigger deal than that?

Oh, BTW, some stuff you never saw sent a character we'd only painted positively up until S6 to Hell. I think that's sloppy storytelling.


Amy - May 07, 2011 6:59:20 am PDT #19633 of 30002
Because books.

I don't think Samuel was in hell. The crossroads demon was able to bring Sam back from what we presume is heaven in AHBL; I assumed Crowley simply meant he knew the right man for his job, and where to find him.

I'm glad we finally know who brought Sam back, although his face when he was telling Cas what a "piss-poor" job he did broke me.

And Crowley is definitely the greatest salesman who ever lived. The way he sold Cas was perfect -- pressing every button so neatly.

Loved that Cas was keeping watch over Dean, too, and how much he wanted to honor both what Sam wanted for Dean, and what he thought was good for Dean (i.e. the chance to rest and find some happiness).

I think Team Free Will's anger is justified -- no one wants to be played, especially after what the angels put Sam and Dean through. I think Dean especially is simply hurt that Cas didn't come to him and ask for help or advice. When it comes to his family, Dean does believe he's the only one who can keep them safe, even if that means keeping them safe from themselves (see: Sam partnering with Ruby, plus the fact that he was right about that bears out his belief).

The scene in the dark living room with the hushed voices was so reminiscent of mom and dad fighting so the kids won't hear. They broke up! God, that was painful.

And Cas speaking to god, waiting for an answer -- really beautifully played. He hasn't lost his faith, even though he knows god took himself out of the game a long time ago. I think the fact that it can only be god who brought him back at Stull is responsible for some of that, but I don't think Cas ever truly lost his devotion, not completely.

I need to watch it again. So much happened, I was sitting there with my mouth hanging open trying to process for most of it.


§ ita § - May 07, 2011 7:09:01 am PDT #19634 of 30002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I am blocking out time this afternoon to rewatch Mommy Dearest and this. Most def.


P.M. Marc - May 07, 2011 8:56:13 am PDT #19635 of 30002
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

I'm with Amy on Samuel.