I feel somewhat badly for not weighing in on the moster/purgatory/soul discussion, but, honestly, it's so murky and vague that I just can't bring the energy to figuring out the intent with the evidence and the potential and the plotholes. Just looking at vesseldom, it just strikes as a whole lot of extremely vague "let's not paint ourselves into a corner" and it feels like wasted effort on my part to try and anticipate what they'll decide is true, and what is left up in the air for all eternity (let's introduce Cas' vessel, and make it really fucking poignant, and never touch it again!) /jimmy burnout

honestly, it's so murky and vague

I don't get that. But I'm suffering a lot from thinking my point of view is terribly obvious, and I should stop.

I see unanswered questions, and I think they did a bad-ish execution of Soulless Sam--not that I didn't really enjoy him, but I think he had too many emotions for what I thought they were trying to posit. He just didn't have the "good" emotions, which is cherrypicking the psyche.

That part of the soul thing I think was messy. I do like that Cas and Sam and Dean all disagree about what it means, though, and I'm almost okay with the text not coming down on any of their sides. It's totally Dean to unblame Sam at this point, and totally Sam to accept all the blame. An angel leaving a soul in hell, though, less clear. Especially since he's the one that hauled Dean's out.

Then again, he does canonically play favourites.

BTW, if you're worried about being spoilt, stay away from anything and anyone show-related on IMDB. Apparently details are being put in for the finale.

Which could all be wrong, but why risk it?

I know Amy said she got spoilt for Gen in The French Mistake by looking at her IMDB entry, so heads up iffen you don't want to know, you know, stuff.

Thinking again of The Rapture, it's cool that Misha has gotten to play such different characters, plus End!Cas. I mean, "Misha," Cas and Jimmy are nicely non-contiguous. That's more diversity than either of the Js has gotten, really. Even Meg!Sam had to act like Sam for a while.

I'm sure I could wank some nice fanon/canon out of what we've been presented, I just don't have the time or imagination or patience. I have a vague memory of investing in some show or another, positing about the mythology based on current evidence, and being burned so so badly. This season, I have no fucking clue, and am content to just be along for the ride, even if it makes no fucking sense.

I think Sam and his soul and lack thereof, was fun to watch, made little sense. I'm not going to try to untangle Crowley's angle or endgame, Eve makes no sense to me with her picking out Dean and Sam to taunt and her own beef and endgame. Samuel was a whole lot of wtf psychology and why Crowley chose to pull him out of heaven, if that was even remotely true... I like to focus instead on the psychology of Sam and Dean. That's more navigable to me. More consistent and less plot holey, even if JA has a hard time pulling himself out of a comfort zone with an intimate character. (I'm not knocking him. Taking a character you've known for five years, gotten into the skin of, know better than the writers, and have that ripped away? It's not lazy acting, it's freaking identity crisis).

being burned so so badly

How do you mean burnt? Isn't the worst that can happen that you turn out to be wrong?

Crowley makes sense for me, Eve singling out the boys makes sense if word travels--Samuel, not as much. Crowley makes sense for me up to the point where he can reach into Heaven and get people. That seems a lot for a demon, even the ruler of Hell.

However, the idea that pulling Samuel out of the afterlife is the way to get the Hardy Boys on his case (and that it has to be them) makes sense, even if it misfired.

Burnt, as in trying to use logic to speculate on the progession of a story, spend time and thought in untangling a story, only to find the writers took the shortest route out of the web they wove, with the least amount of logic possible.

Even looking back over seasons 2-5, it's still unclear the logic and motives and endgame of Azazel, Alistair, Ruby, Lilith, Uriel, & Zacchariah, the conjoining, conflicting, parallel, and obtuse angle angel motives don't make sense.

Basically, I'm saying I'm not going to think about the plot of Show until Show reveals all (or as much as it will), and as such, I have to logically remove myself from the conversation. I don't understand, and I'm not going to try.

Ah, I see.

Half the point of fandom is, for me, teasing these things out. I can't imagine not wondering. But I don't invest in it--whether I'm right or I'm wrong I still spent the same amount of time doing it.

Besides, when a show goes all X-Files, everyone gets shat upon, not just those (millions and millions) who could have pulled something more sensical out of their asses.

Crowley makes sense for me, Eve singling out the boys makes sense if word travels--Samuel, not as much.

I think part of my problem (if it is one) is that I can get invested in figuring out the logic if I want to, but with TV I can never forget the meta (unlike, say, a book series, where it's not really necessary).

For example: Bringing John back would have been awesome, and made more sense than Samuel -- it would have given the boys a huge motivation to work with him, and therefore for Crowley, and if Crowley had promised to bring back Mary for *John*, think what he would have done.

But getting JDM back for recurring episodes? Certainly hasn't seemed to work so far, and who knows, maybe the show runners have reasons not to. I have hard time separating what I know are logistics from the storyline, I guess, and I'm pretty willing to accept the limitations.

Also, some of the mythology they've built around souls and angel vessels doesn't really seem untangle-able to me, so I try to apply handwavium when I can.

Unless I get a bee in my bonnet about things like heaven, since I wanted to write fic set there.

Cold PBR:

I should make it clear, though, that I LOVE to speculate and talk about it. It stays fairly theoretical for me, though, unless you go to some weird place like John abused the boys as kids, for instance.

I think I'm more invested in the characters and the overall themes than the weekly plots.

Yeah, I love speculating about the boys, and the generalities, but getting detailed about the McGuffin (although that's easy to get huffy about) and the nature of vampires and other monsters, I can't do it if I'm sure the writers care less than I do. But as long as Sam and Dean stay true, I'm good.

Amy, Peanut Butter and Relish?