Today's Sam, even before he jumped in the hole, wouldn't bat an eye at Dean's lies in the line of duty.

I think a lot of Sam's... hardening, for lack of a better word, started in the year after Dean made his Crossroads Deal. You see him becoming more and more desperate as time grows shorter and he's trying to find a way to save Dean. He starts showing less patience with witnesses, for example. He becomes more of a man on a mission, more about expediency.

For me the big difference is the Sam who thinks he can have a normal life, or that he deserves one, and Sam now.

He wasn't naive, he wasn't innocent. He had known about shit and killed shit and seen death aplenty before he went off to Stanford. He was also a headstrong and angry kid who was very willing to take broad actions that might hurt other people, so he wasn't all emo and fluffy.

But he was still fighting for normalcy with Jessica, and I think the first time he let that down and connected again with Madison it was even more highlighting how abnormal this whole thing was. Cara? He coulda shot her a bit coldly, although surely regretfully. But he wasn't reaching out anymore, and he'd given up on being a real little boy.

eta: I also think he never had a problem lying to people--he adopted the personas really deftly. He had a problem with Dean being an ass, and he had a moral problem with theft.

Do you suppose that's what wrong with everything? That one deal that Mary made, that had John living past his time, enshrouded them in disturbance? And that each successive resurrection (whoah nellie, what a family) just amplifies it?

That seems like the core lesson of Appointment in Samarra to me, but how can that possibly be fixed?

I don't know why I was surprised to see this. Hitler finds out SPN's been prempted: [link]

Done to death, sure. But "I don't have enough animated gifs to express these THINGS THAT I AM FEELING!" has NATLBSB potential.

That seems like the core lesson of Appointment in Samarra to me, but how can that possibly be fixed?

Theoretically, it could be fixed by removing both boys from existence, but that is NOT ACCEPTABLE.

And Bobby. He's also been resurrected from an untimely death.

I don't think that would end the disruptions of the natural order in a larger sense, though. People unaffiliated with the Winchesters have been shown using magic to raise loved ones from the dead (albeit as murderous zombies), and that would seem likely to be one of the main reasons for crossroads deals.

it could be fixed by removing both boys from existence, but that is NOT ACCEPTABLE.

Well, if you keep John dead, it should all be okay.

I can fanwank that Winchester/Campbell resurrections have a larger impact on the world as a whole because of the fatedness of their vesselhoods.

hee!! that was awesome, Calli!

That vid almost makes the extra week's wait worth it.

Re: the Hitler vid - is that actually Jim Beaver commenting on it, or are there people taking over the casts' IDs on YouTube now too?