Xander: Am I right, Giles? Giles: I'm almost certain you're not. Though, to be fair, I haven't been listening.

'Sleeper'


Supernatural 2: Why is it our job to save everybody?  

[NAFDA]. This is where we talk about the CW series Supernatural! Anything that's aired in the US on TV (including promos) is fair game. No spoilers though — if you post one by accident, an admin will delete it.


Morgana - Sep 28, 2010 4:22:02 pm PDT #14409 of 30002
"I make mistakes, but I am on the side of Good," the Golux said, "by accident and happenchance.” – The 13 Clocks, James Thurber

No, I agree with you. He was certainly molded by John. But he himself was more than heavy-handed with Sam, from what we know of the pre-Stanford years. It wasn't just John laying down the "Winchesters must be hunters" law. And all during the run of the show whenever Sam mentioned anything other than the hunting life, or whenever Dean referenced it, it was mocked mercilessly. Now people change with time and perspective and experience, and I think that's what's happened here.


Juliebird - Sep 28, 2010 4:25:50 pm PDT #14410 of 30002
I am the fly who dreams of the spider

now perhaps he has a more visceral understanding of what it was like for Sam all those years.

I don't disagree at the contrast, but I think here is the difference of "all those years" and "in less than one day". And again that strikes too much of a pissing contest of whose pain was worse. And i think that it's all pain, and it's all unfairness, and that one experienced it before the other doesn't cancel out the latter's, or is better or worse or more significant than.

And I think there is also an element of these characters not being in any state to think "hey, my bro has been here before, I can relate now all of a sudden" because life is not an analytical dissection, but an experience of what is the most recent and fresh. And that applies both to "I've been in Hell" and "Stop telling me how to live my life".


§ ita § - Sep 28, 2010 4:34:42 pm PDT #14411 of 30002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I don't see much of a parallel between Dean pulling Sam in and Sam pulling Dean in, if they're going for one. First, they're going to have to show me that Dean values and cherishes normal over everything. So far, he's living up to a responsibility--started off to Sam, now to Lisa and Ben. He might be enjoying parts of it, but we've been shown precious little of that so far.

Sam was happy with Jess, and desperate to get there on his own. He was lying, but I think he'd made pretty much total peace with that lie.

And, honestly, if Sam pulls Dean out of happiness, I'll be pissed.


Morgana - Sep 28, 2010 4:34:45 pm PDT #14412 of 30002
"I make mistakes, but I am on the side of Good," the Golux said, "by accident and happenchance.” – The 13 Clocks, James Thurber

I think more than a "better or worse or more significant than" situation this might be intended as yet another callback to the Pilot/season one. I was amusing myself this weekend by listing all the callbacks I could pull from the episode, and they really loaded it down with shoutouts to the beginning of the series. The whole 'I'm normal and that makes me an outsider/everyone else is trying to make me change' was there at the beginning, it's just that it was aimed at Sam then.


§ ita § - Sep 28, 2010 4:38:08 pm PDT #14413 of 30002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Speaking of parallels, Dean closing curtains just about slayed me. I hated The Magnificent Seven, but that's what that means to me.


Beverly - Sep 28, 2010 4:54:37 pm PDT #14414 of 30002
Days shrink and grow cold, sunlight through leaves is my song. Winter is long.

I nearly gasped at that shot, ita. I don't know if it's forboding, or just recognition, but the impression was strong.


§ ita § - Sep 28, 2010 6:14:16 pm PDT #14415 of 30002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

We are so conditioned with the little stuff. We've been set up like the dogs of Pavlov.

I'm watching Colin Ford on Hawaii Five-O and having double pain. First--woobie! Fight back! And then no! He's getting too big to be wee Sam!


Theresa - Sep 28, 2010 6:39:11 pm PDT #14416 of 30002
"What would it take to get your daughter to stop tweeting about this?"

Colin was a little awesome dude on Hawaii 5-0, but I was thinking the same about losing him to age.

Now that we've mentioned callbacks I need to rewatch. There was specifically some dialogue that I was going to point out here, but now I'll have to find it again.

Off! To the DVR!


Amy - Sep 28, 2010 6:39:14 pm PDT #14417 of 30002
Because books.

My other half just wondered if Sam is an angel. That can't be, right?! I'm all ... DUDE. No!?!


Theresa - Sep 28, 2010 7:11:36 pm PDT #14418 of 30002
"What would it take to get your daughter to stop tweeting about this?"

Oh no. That would suck. Let's cross our fingers.

Each viewing I am happier that they didn't try and shove love at us. Even in the montage, snuggling in bed, it's more comfort and friendship. Dean can build on that.

eta: Okay, Superwiki is really da bomb, ya know? It wasn't the pilot episode. In 6.01, the female djinn says, "this is for our dad, you son of a bitch" and Dean said in AHBL part2, "that was for our mom, you son of a bitch". Anyway, it jingled enough that I knew it was familiar.