Yesterday I asked my mom if she liked mini golf and you would think I asked her if she liked stomping puppies.

Because damn is everybody in his face about how he ought to live his life or mocking him. Except for Lisa, who's all "I don't regret you being in mine, please don't sully that."

Uh, Lisa totally hit his weak spot and guilted him into staying. I don't think Dean is capable of making a decision on his own. He's just pulled by the strongest need, and Ben is currently that. Lisa totally played on that, although completely sincerely.

Sam was also sincere.

Sampa is the tool of evol.

I think the short hand used in show was mocking the more old-school snobbery and country-clubness that surrounds it

I think the shorthand was looking down on leisure pursuits especially where you can't hustle.

hugs mini-golf protectively, cries

I think the shorthand was looking down on leisure pursuits especially where you can't hustle.

That was the impression I got. Also, given that it was Sam doing the mocking on that point, the mocking felt more to me like teasing than what we got from the scary female Campbell.

As for fic, I'm mostly steering clear at the moment. A lot of it looks (IMO) like people doing post-ep processing and venting.

IMDB says he was also Parker Lewis who couldn't lose. I did not know that.

I did! But, wow. My Parker Lewis love was and remains HUGE.

I'm fearful that the (temporary) rift between the brothers will somehow multiply as plot bunnies do in fic. DO NOT WANT.

I've been (fruitlessly...no fruit for Buffy) searching for a story on LJ and working my way through the recs lists on many, many old issues of the SPN newsletter. Along the way I've discovered a lot of stories I didn't read the first time around and I've been struck with how different the tone is, with the absence of the Ruby interlude and the angel involvement and the Apcalypse. Which isn't to say enjoyable fiction didn't come out of the complex plot developments, just that it was a welcome diversion for a while to browse amongst fics where the default wasn't "how angry are they with each other this time?"

While I like the idea of the Campbells being evil minions for some nefarious do-no-gooder, I really hope it's not Sam.

I came across the theory that the Campbells are yet another example of Sam's inability to associate with anyone trustworthy on his own. He can't be trusted to pick his own companions without Dean's guidance. And I have to say if Show is going in that direction I will be pissed.

Because damn is everybody in his face about how he ought to live his life or mocking him.

True. I agree that was happening. OTOH, now perhaps he has a more visceral understanding of what it was like for Sam all those years.

Uh, it's not like Dean has lived a life unled by others. He's just more effectively brainwashed. But his father made his decisions up until he died.

No, I agree with you. He was certainly molded by John. But he himself was more than heavy-handed with Sam, from what we know of the pre-Stanford years. It wasn't just John laying down the "Winchesters must be hunters" law. And all during the run of the show whenever Sam mentioned anything other than the hunting life, or whenever Dean referenced it, it was mocked mercilessly. Now people change with time and perspective and experience, and I think that's what's happened here.

now perhaps he has a more visceral understanding of what it was like for Sam all those years.

I don't disagree at the contrast, but I think here is the difference of "all those years" and "in less than one day". And again that strikes too much of a pissing contest of whose pain was worse. And i think that it's all pain, and it's all unfairness, and that one experienced it before the other doesn't cancel out the latter's, or is better or worse or more significant than.

And I think there is also an element of these characters not being in any state to think "hey, my bro has been here before, I can relate now all of a sudden" because life is not an analytical dissection, but an experience of what is the most recent and fresh. And that applies both to "I've been in Hell" and "Stop telling me how to live my life".

I don't see much of a parallel between Dean pulling Sam in and Sam pulling Dean in, if they're going for one. First, they're going to have to show me that Dean values and cherishes normal over everything. So far, he's living up to a responsibility--started off to Sam, now to Lisa and Ben. He might be enjoying parts of it, but we've been shown precious little of that so far.

Sam was happy with Jess, and desperate to get there on his own. He was lying, but I think he'd made pretty much total peace with that lie.

And, honestly, if Sam pulls Dean out of happiness, I'll be pissed.

I think more than a "better or worse or more significant than" situation this might be intended as yet another callback to the Pilot/season one. I was amusing myself this weekend by listing all the callbacks I could pull from the episode, and they really loaded it down with shoutouts to the beginning of the series. The whole 'I'm normal and that makes me an outsider/everyone else is trying to make me change' was there at the beginning, it's just that it was aimed at Sam then.