I have to say, I'm with ita. I don't read it the same way at all, Bev. I think, also, you might be basing too much on one line. The whole point of watching, for me, was to see what they did with the obstacles they faced, and what choices they made for what reasons, with so much at stake.

The decisions they made affected nothing. The end game was always going to be the same. If S5 was the last one, it wouldn't have been Adam riding Sam's coattails into hell. There was no averting destiny, no matter what. I'm unhappy with foregone conclusions, it trivializes those "decisions" they were "allowed" to make, and turns the entire series into a Disney ride rather than an actual exploration. If we're going to hell, let's get to it, and not bother with the angst and the rescues and the dithering and the glayvin.

Your journey of course may vary.

The decisions they made affected nothing.

Huh? If they had not gone into the pit, much of the world would have been wiped out. If Adam hadn't been sucked into the game in time, Luci would have wiped out humanity. I don't get "nothing."

I mean, the world wasn't going to end for meta reasons, sure, but shows don't end the world. That's not something craven Kripke did. Somehow Sam and Dean were going to save us. That's a good thing, nu?

I'm surprised you're tuning in on Friday.

There was no averting destiny, no matter what.

I just don't understand how you're getting to that point, Bev. Dean averted his destiny, didn't he? And Sam made a choice, for the good of the world. Maybe it feels like destiny because he did what "they" wanted, but he actually didn't have to.

I guess I don't understand what you wanted to happen instead.

I'm surprised you're tuning in on Friday.

MJMV.

MJMV.

?

My apprehension of the show differs from the accepted norm. My journey may vary.

It's entirely possible lately I'm taking fiction more seriously than it merits.

I don't think I could feel betrayed by a piece of fiction, but I imagine if I did, I would abandon it.

SPN Xover commentfic. Not many fills, but the SG1/SPN one? Sam/Sam? Gorgeous. Though I would have more likely paired him with Daniel, I think, and Dean with Sam, except for the confusing thing.

Michael did say that Free Will was an illusion, that the millions of choices and random events that led to John and Mary meeting (yes,I watched that episode last night) always were going to lead to the same ending.

I'm pretty much with Bev on loving the characters but suspecting Kripke may be an idiot. I draw the idiot conclusion from him talking. Maybe its just immaturity or something, I dunno, but he grates. I can't cognitively put him together with the characters that I love.

I haven't trusted him with those characters for a couple years now, but still I watched. I'm not sorry he is leaving. However, it sounds like he still has the same level of creative input according to Sera interviews.

The angels (sans Cas) had a very clear agenda that involved the boys having no choice. I figured it was clear the whole point of the story was that they were wrong.

There was a pattern that needed to be played out...and Sam and Dean didn't, so they won. The world lives.