Lisa doesn't have to be protected and set on a magical pedestal where she does no wrong and IZ PERFECT and does no wrong to Dean and is emotionally healthy.

No she doesn't have to be those things. But her character can still have a place in the story.

I'm a little enh at the idea of a non-active-in-the-quest person in the storyline, but execution could change my mind. I like them isolated for healthy normality. I crave and adore that.

CW has posted a sneak peek.

I'm wary but also weary. So...I don't know where that leaves me.

Cass, my apologies if my post seemed snippy - I hadn't seen your response when I posted.

Oh, gosh no. I just assumed that we don't agree. And that's totally okay.

Though I did go back and in re-reading our posts in succession, it did sound snippy on both sides but I think we knew what we meant and didn't realize we were posting in quite that order. The conversations and replies just managed to converge.

I was bad and I watched! Nnnngh!

No she doesn't have to be those things. But her character can still have a place in the story.

I think we agree, then. I certainly don't think she looses any narrative function by being less than ideal. I think there's more interesting things to be had if she's more than just the fantasy being forced into a half-baked reality.

Oh, gosh no. I just assumed that we don't agree. And that's totally okay.

But of course! I'm just in a walking on eggshells mood tonight for some reason.

And yeah, I find that while I like the idea of the relationship with Dean and Lisa being problematic, I also really want it to have some basis in something genuine. Maybe not something that's enough to build a healthy relationship on, or a lasting one, but something genuine nonetheless (that will only make it more painful later...).

I do wish I trusted Show to do right by Lisa--not in terms of having things come up roses for her, but in terms of giving some thought to what her story is, and who she is, in ways that go beyond her being Dean's shot at something resembling a normal life. On edit, there probably wouldn't be room to do too much of that, given that the show is not about her. But I would love to see what little screen time she does have be more than having her function as plot machinery.

in ways that go beyond her being Dean's shot at something resembling a normal life.

This, however that works out.

Heh. Wasn't trying to be a troll and look at all I stirred up. The OTP for Theresa. I just really like him liking her. Mostly based on her being Carmen, which she isn't, but in my mind, they have had that back story.

I disliked Cassie's performance so much that I was over their love by the end of the episode. I didn't have any problem with either Dean's affection fading or him realizing he was mistaken.

True, that. I'm more trying to make room in my own mind for there to be a basis to the relationship that isn't about Ben.

I'm not being a smartass here, because I honestly don't remember but wasn't WIAWSNB before Ben ever showed up? I thought of it as him idealizing Lisa as Carmen, and I loved Carmen. I thought she held her own with the other two iconic women of Mary and Jess and it had nothing to do with any future children. So in my mind, Carmen=Lisa due to their physical appearance which I think is a huge coincidence if show didn't want us to make that connection. I handwave that it wasn't the same actress based on that Dean only had 4 days with her so had some details wrong. But then he saw her with Ben, so when he fantasized about her again, he had a fresher mental image.

Which sounds like I want other people to think that way, but I don't. That's just my rationale. In my mind Carmen was Lisa, but I don't expect her to be in anyone else's.