It doesn't surprise me that they're sleeping together. I think for Dean, attempting to do what Sam asked would mean going all the way, no pun intended. And you can't discount Lisa wanting to sleep with him, even if it starts as comfort sex.

I think I'll be truly angry at show for the first time if they villainize Lisa somehow.

Jeremy is even hotter now.

Heh, different strokes. I recall tuning in a couple weeks ago and thinking "THAT'S the cute kid from that killer piranha movie? What happened to him? Why hasn't a producer stepped in to protect him from the obviously vindictive hair and makeup people?"

Sleeping with Lisa cements him more as a father figure for Ben, and makes that separation even harder. I dunno, I guess it's a while before Sam comes back, given the dialogue, so it's not like they necessarily hop into bed right away. I just think the whole accepting him in thing is kinda dodgy. But if he's been there a while, and proven himself, and stopped drinking, it's not so bad.

I'm okay with Lisa holding back and not fully committing that one final step, and I don't see it as villainizing, just complicated stupid human.

But you described her as spectacularly mean. I don't understand how that's not villanising her.

Not telling a guy he's really the father is always a bad move, IMO, when you're SLEEPING WITH HIM.

I think if there's a significant time jump, I am willing to accept there was some work done by Dean and Lisa to end up in a settled relationship. I want to buy it because I'm pretty sure that's what they're selling.

How he extricates himself has the potential to piss me off.

In other news, I listened to The End commentary, Ben and Eric crack themselves up. I want to hang out with them at their tikki bar. Poor Bob, piping up to make sure the Vancouver crowd is recognized for their hard work, while Ben and Eric fawn over the storytelling process and manage to be much more interesting. I think Bob would intimidate the Hell out of me, but I can see how valuable he must be to keeping the other two on a relatively sane path.

Sleeping with Lisa cements him more as a father figure for Ben, and makes that separation even harder.

For a kid, though, I think it would be more confusing to have Dean sleeping on the couch, or in a guest room. Making them a couple would make the separation harder, most likely, but without anticipating that it's not going to work? Kids tend to want a more defined role for adults in their lives.

I think it would be more confusing to have Dean sleeping on the couch, or in a guest room

I've never parented, so I don't have any first hand experience. But I had plenty of adults in my life that were parent-adjacent. It would be confusing if I wanted a father figure and that position was vacant, but the concept isn't alien.

Like I said, I'm working off the "begin as you mean to go on" principle, though. If Dean is committing to making it work with her, it doesn't surprise me that they're sleeping together, sharing a bedroom, all that.

I get that it will be hard for Ben if Dean leaves. But I'm inclined to give both Dean and Lisa the benefit of the doubt in terms of trying first. Kids are pretty resilient, too.

I'd like to think they didn't get straight to that, though. There's absolutely no reason for them to think a relationship would work.

I may be projecting my own one-night-standishness onto this too much, but there are people I'd be deliriously happy to spend a bendy weekend or five with, but that has nothing to do with inserting myself into their long term life and the life of their kids.

So I'm still mad at Sam for that suggestion, and I @@ at the idea that it's really that simple, that all it takes is a really gracious woman and Dean's rakishness is put to rest, especially with something as sensitive as a young kid on the line.

I'd like to think he spent a lot of time on the couch/in the guest room, and they slowly discovered it could work romantically, instead of leaping right in.

Sam's wishes for apple pie aren't that powerful for me.