I think if there's a significant time jump, I am willing to accept there was some work done by Dean and Lisa to end up in a settled relationship. I want to buy it because I'm pretty sure that's what they're selling.

How he extricates himself has the potential to piss me off.

In other news, I listened to The End commentary, Ben and Eric crack themselves up. I want to hang out with them at their tikki bar. Poor Bob, piping up to make sure the Vancouver crowd is recognized for their hard work, while Ben and Eric fawn over the storytelling process and manage to be much more interesting. I think Bob would intimidate the Hell out of me, but I can see how valuable he must be to keeping the other two on a relatively sane path.

Sleeping with Lisa cements him more as a father figure for Ben, and makes that separation even harder.

For a kid, though, I think it would be more confusing to have Dean sleeping on the couch, or in a guest room. Making them a couple would make the separation harder, most likely, but without anticipating that it's not going to work? Kids tend to want a more defined role for adults in their lives.

I think it would be more confusing to have Dean sleeping on the couch, or in a guest room

I've never parented, so I don't have any first hand experience. But I had plenty of adults in my life that were parent-adjacent. It would be confusing if I wanted a father figure and that position was vacant, but the concept isn't alien.

Like I said, I'm working off the "begin as you mean to go on" principle, though. If Dean is committing to making it work with her, it doesn't surprise me that they're sleeping together, sharing a bedroom, all that.

I get that it will be hard for Ben if Dean leaves. But I'm inclined to give both Dean and Lisa the benefit of the doubt in terms of trying first. Kids are pretty resilient, too.

I'd like to think they didn't get straight to that, though. There's absolutely no reason for them to think a relationship would work.

I may be projecting my own one-night-standishness onto this too much, but there are people I'd be deliriously happy to spend a bendy weekend or five with, but that has nothing to do with inserting myself into their long term life and the life of their kids.

So I'm still mad at Sam for that suggestion, and I @@ at the idea that it's really that simple, that all it takes is a really gracious woman and Dean's rakishness is put to rest, especially with something as sensitive as a young kid on the line.

I'd like to think he spent a lot of time on the couch/in the guest room, and they slowly discovered it could work romantically, instead of leaping right in.

Sam's wishes for apple pie aren't that powerful for me.

I can see all that. I think mostly I've always assumed it's *not* going to work out, and we're not going to see the fallout, and ... I'm just not that worked up about it.

I know it can be damaging for a kid to get attached and have it yanked away, but in this case I don't actually think he's going to be completely broken. He's lived alone with his mom for nine years, and he's old enough to value Dean as a father figure without a really small child's fantasy expectations. And Dean can possibly be a father figure Ben will still see from time to time, if not daily. John did it with Adam -- there's no reason to think Dean can't with Ben a few times a year.

What's got me most nervous is why and how Sam comes back, and how they're going to handle that.

My only real concern is that they are going to demonize and/or fridge Lisa, which would really piss me off. I'm willing to go into it believing they won't though.

And Dean can possibly be a father figure Ben will still see from time to time, if not daily. John did it with Adam

Which didn't really work out well, though, did it?

It looks like Sam delays coming back to Dean, which is a big no-no. Cue the "Sam doesn't really love Dean" chorus.

Which didn't really work out well, though, did it?

But Dean isn't John!

You have no magic in your heart. Spleen. Whatever.

I think I'm coming at the "villainy" from a "but what if it's not malicious, just stupid and messed up and selfish and inadvertantly hurtful?", in which case I am copacetic with Lisa being villainized.