Yeah, I too had the epiphany (while writing) that having protection might have done a number on what they were trying to do.

Still, a well-placed Devil's Trap or three, people!

I didn't think she'd survive, but I thought the reason Sam didn't even try was because Pamela needed to be near Dean's body.

I thought the reason Sam didn't even try is because Pamela told him no, and to get him a drink.

I'm actually into full-on baffled now, having caught up with the flist, by how many people did not read it the way ita and I did. I mean, a gut wound is a nasty-ass injury, a gut wound delivered with demonic strength probably extra-nasty in terms of damage, and we're not talking damage you walk away from here. She knew she was dead before Death clocked back in.

Oh, and as I said to Jilli on our way home from work, TOTALLY a Mercurtio role played here by Pamela.

I read her as dead the second that injury happened. It just took a little while for her to fall because of the Reaper situation. And, of course, because words spoken by the dying are given a greater dramatic weight.

But, yeah, that wound was lethal looking to me. Which sucks because I liked Pamela as a character.

and we're not talking damage you walk away from here. She knew she was dead before Death clocked back in.

Yep. The only reason I have for quibbling at her death (besides the fact that I liked Pamela as a character) is that there should have been SOME sort of mystical/occult-y protection going on. If there had been something and the demon got around it or tricked her to step outside of it? Then it would have made more sense to me.

Fay, great fic. Yeah, totally what I was thinking, only way before I thought it.

I'm also interested in how Sam is going down. Yeah, they were always lying liars. But Sam doesn't care who he hurts any more. No effort at minimizing collateral damage, no thought of trying to be truthful even with friends and allies. There is no longer anyone in his life he doesn't have to lie to, except maybe Ruby.

And yeah, I'm totally prepared for Ruby to have an evil agenda, maybe be working for Lilith, or maybe be working for a demon faction that looks on non-apocalyptic earth as a place full of happy meals with legs. But at this point, I actually think it more interesting for her to be exactly what she appears to be - a demon who has turned against demon kind. Extremely angsty. Leaves her no place to turn.

I thought the reason Sam didn't even try is because Pamela told him no, and to get him a drink.

And Sam listens so well to what other people tell him to do?

I don't think we're actually that far apart on how we read things. I agree that the wound was fatal, and that Pamela knew it. I just think Sam's assessment of the situation was fairly cold blooded, just in case we needed more proof of how much he'd changed/fallen.

One thing that amused me: We lived about a half hour from Greybull for a year (waaay back in 1996) and Greybull looks mostly like this: [link]

Well, the outskirts, anyway. Not a lot of trees, and not many people, either. I think Greybull's population is about 2,000.

I keep thinking about Sam and Castiel, too. The angels are determined that Sam is headed to the darkside, that his demon blood is No Good, but Sam and Castiel's methods and general ptragmatism in this episode are pretty similar. Who lies to get the job done? Sam ... and Castiel. Who's not telling Dean the whole story, unless pressed (and sometimes not even then)? Sam ... and Castiel.

Sam and Dean's reversal is also fascinating. When they were interviewing gunshot guy, it was Sam who was pressing to find out if he'd been to a crossroads or seen someone with black or red eyes, and Dean who seemed willing to accept the "miracle" at face value. Once upon a time, Sam and Dean would have been reversed on that.

there should have been SOME sort of mystical/occult-y protection going on

Well, she could have easily had something to protect herself, a small area, that wouldn't have prevented the boys from getting back.

(But, as with so many things on TV that seem silly, if they had done that then they wouldn't have a plot point.)

I just think Sam's assessment of the situation was fairly cold blooded, just in case we needed more proof of how much he'd changed/fallen.

I think his first instinct, that they had to help, was pretty old school. His easy acceptance, more new school, but also probably influenced by Dean not yet being back in his body and needing Pamela to get him in there. (Which is fitting, because Sam's ends justifying the means started with Dean, back in Faith.)

Well, she could have easily had something to protect herself, a small area, that wouldn't have prevented the boys from getting back.

And wouldn't have protected them from the threat to the unoccupied bodies.

His easy acceptance, more new school, but also probably influenced by Dean not yet being back in his body and needing Pamela to get him in there. (Which is fitting, because Sam's ends justifying the means started with Dean, back in Faith.)

Since this was pretty much my original comment, I think we are seeing it the same way basically, just saying it in different ways.

I read Pam's wound as would-be-fatal when reapers were reactivated, too. Didn't occur to me it wouldn't be. And I am sorry to lose Pamela as a character.

I wondered a bit at the lack of protection, and never gave a thought to it preventing the brothers' spirits returning, but that does make sense.