Fay, great fic. Yeah, totally what I was thinking, only way before I thought it.

I'm also interested in how Sam is going down. Yeah, they were always lying liars. But Sam doesn't care who he hurts any more. No effort at minimizing collateral damage, no thought of trying to be truthful even with friends and allies. There is no longer anyone in his life he doesn't have to lie to, except maybe Ruby.

And yeah, I'm totally prepared for Ruby to have an evil agenda, maybe be working for Lilith, or maybe be working for a demon faction that looks on non-apocalyptic earth as a place full of happy meals with legs. But at this point, I actually think it more interesting for her to be exactly what she appears to be - a demon who has turned against demon kind. Extremely angsty. Leaves her no place to turn.

I thought the reason Sam didn't even try is because Pamela told him no, and to get him a drink.

And Sam listens so well to what other people tell him to do?

I don't think we're actually that far apart on how we read things. I agree that the wound was fatal, and that Pamela knew it. I just think Sam's assessment of the situation was fairly cold blooded, just in case we needed more proof of how much he'd changed/fallen.

One thing that amused me: We lived about a half hour from Greybull for a year (waaay back in 1996) and Greybull looks mostly like this: [link]

Well, the outskirts, anyway. Not a lot of trees, and not many people, either. I think Greybull's population is about 2,000.

I keep thinking about Sam and Castiel, too. The angels are determined that Sam is headed to the darkside, that his demon blood is No Good, but Sam and Castiel's methods and general ptragmatism in this episode are pretty similar. Who lies to get the job done? Sam ... and Castiel. Who's not telling Dean the whole story, unless pressed (and sometimes not even then)? Sam ... and Castiel.

Sam and Dean's reversal is also fascinating. When they were interviewing gunshot guy, it was Sam who was pressing to find out if he'd been to a crossroads or seen someone with black or red eyes, and Dean who seemed willing to accept the "miracle" at face value. Once upon a time, Sam and Dean would have been reversed on that.

there should have been SOME sort of mystical/occult-y protection going on

Well, she could have easily had something to protect herself, a small area, that wouldn't have prevented the boys from getting back.

(But, as with so many things on TV that seem silly, if they had done that then they wouldn't have a plot point.)

I just think Sam's assessment of the situation was fairly cold blooded, just in case we needed more proof of how much he'd changed/fallen.

I think his first instinct, that they had to help, was pretty old school. His easy acceptance, more new school, but also probably influenced by Dean not yet being back in his body and needing Pamela to get him in there. (Which is fitting, because Sam's ends justifying the means started with Dean, back in Faith.)

Well, she could have easily had something to protect herself, a small area, that wouldn't have prevented the boys from getting back.

And wouldn't have protected them from the threat to the unoccupied bodies.

His easy acceptance, more new school, but also probably influenced by Dean not yet being back in his body and needing Pamela to get him in there. (Which is fitting, because Sam's ends justifying the means started with Dean, back in Faith.)

Since this was pretty much my original comment, I think we are seeing it the same way basically, just saying it in different ways.

I read Pam's wound as would-be-fatal when reapers were reactivated, too. Didn't occur to me it wouldn't be. And I am sorry to lose Pamela as a character.

I wondered a bit at the lack of protection, and never gave a thought to it preventing the brothers' spirits returning, but that does make sense.

I think you're seeing it as further along his changed spectrum than I am. (It didn't seem too far from some of his S1 and S2 actions, to me.)

But yeah, I agree that we're in basic agreement. *g*

I agree about the lack of protection being to allow the boys' spirits back in.

I think that the most amusing theory I've read so far is the one about the better Sam's hair looks - the more evil he is. It's kind of a corollary on the leatherpants Angel thing.

Interesting that the man who was shot outside the bar brushed off his buddy's concern when he "recovered", similar to what Pamela did to Sam after she was knifed.

I think the Sam of two years ago would have ignored her brush-off and called 9-11. But this Sam is more willing to accept (as P.M. said) "the end justifies the means" and went along with her wishes. He's come to accept his role as soldier, like his father and brother had.

As for Dean, this small measure of hope that miracles can happen is something of a new revelation for him. Of course, this is dashed handily by Tessa. In contrast, in CAIAD, Dean was rather convinced things would end bloody and sad for them. Even Castiel wondered at Dean's bleak outlook on things.

There's another similarity between Sam and Castiel: both seem to believe evil can be defeated, or at the very least, managed.

Still, angels lie. Demons lie. And Death says there are no miracles--perhaps because in the Reapers' realm, there are no such things.