Crap, I meant to say *not* overly muscled.

I like the basketball player build, too. I also very much enjoyed watching JP play basketball in Changing Channels. ::nods::

Johann does definitely look to be wearing the height well.

Thought: what is the rest of fandom's reaction to Lisa post 5x22? The non-D/C contingent, that is. Is she just hated all around because, either way, she's taking Dean from Sam and/or Cas? Are there good Dean/Lisa fics out there? I don't mean curtain fic, I mean legitamately dealing with Dean's issues regarding Sam's imprisonment in Hell and Lisa being a single mom taking in an almost-stranger with issues.

I really liked bluealbino's DCBB. The big bad being a cute pussy cat almost made me larf and larf, in a fannish-meta way.

I also want to drunkenly post a Do Not Want Meme to all the DC communities to stop the madness. His nickname is not an issue, at all! Zachariah is not integral to the character of Cas to include as a family member! Cas is not a wilting flower! There should be a new category for tags called "I just wanted to write porn and wanted you in this fandom to read it, but it really has nothing to do with the characters or the overall story at all!". Like how gropedbyanangel now has subcategory tags for it's au, the kink tags should have a subcategory of, like, "unnecessary" or "fandom abuse".

Are there good Dean/Lisa fics out there? I don't mean curtain fic, I mean legitamately dealing with Dean's issues regarding Sam's imprisonment in Hell and Lisa being a single mom taking in an almost-stranger with issues.

I read one that was so dead-on it almost made me cry. Just perfect characterizations all the way around. But it ended in Wincest, mostly of the emotional variety rather than porn, but it was there. Excellent story, though.

I like Lisa a lot. I think she's got enough motivation to take Dean in after he saved Ben and she learned what he does for, well, not a living, but. I think she's spunky and independent and sexy and a good mom. I *don't* think she and Dean would last, really, because they don't know each other well enough, and he's far too broken.

I agree with ita, though, that the setup is not good for Ben. Kids get attached (or don't, actually, really resentfully), but in this case I think Ben would adore Dean. And that's not fair to him. I'm not sure she would expect a big True Lurve, but I think it would be easy to fantasize about *fixing* him, mending his broken heart, blah blah.

And that way lies disaster, for her and Ben, anyway.

Julie, from what I can work out, she's not overly popular. Most of the reactions I've seen have been either childishly negative or flatly "Whatev, she's not what we want from the show." Fairly few people have been cheerful about the idea. And I've read a fair amount of "Is she crazy???" posts too.

I'm thinking of doing a word/character count to the "Did you just call me Cas?" "Yes, do you mind?" "No, actually, it's okay." moment in all the D/C AUs. Make a chart.

I had read a fic where they let it slide, but in the next chapter, took the time to ruminate over the oddity of it. I mean, shouldn't y'all be aware of your own cliches at this point?

But, seriously, there can be NC-17 fic about Dean/Cas/Crowley or Dean/Gabriel, but no one can do more than vaguely mention Lisa? Even in a fucked up context, like the worst rebound ever, no one will touch that?

Amy I'd read that story you mentioned.

I probably shouldn't generalize but here I go, the ugliness around Lisa reminds me of the same frenzied ugliness that came up when Ruby and Bella were added to the story line. I can understand having legitimate concerns about how a character fits in the Winchesters world, but so much of what I've seen is along the lines of "What a cow, she's so ugly, I hate her!"

It's feels like women hating women solely for being woman and it sincerely depresses me.

Even in a fucked up context, like the worst rebound ever, no one will touch that?

I see a Dean/Castiel (previous Dean/Lisa) fic every couple days on the newsletter. I'm kinda over it right now, because no one is doing anything very different with it. Everyone's angle is to get Dean out of that without making him a bastard, so there's little focus usually on their sex. There seems to be less Dean/Sam with previous Dean/Lisa, and similarly less straight up Dean/Lisa porn, but there's still some of that popping up. She's definitely the only woman I'm seeing being paired with him on any regular basis (Ellen! Where art thou?).

I think Ben is really the hiccup. Even if you want het Dean, I don't think fandom is leaning towards the mother/parenting scenario as PWP-fodder. Which, totally not fair.

But I do tend to take their relationship seriously, and as noted, really need to be convinced it's a good idea. No drunken fumblings allowed.

Amy I'd read that story you mentioned.

Wasn't it lovely? Just really sad but also sort of bittersweet, and realistic to the situation. In my head, anyway.

It's feels like women hating women solely for being woman and it sincerely depresses me.

Also this, so much. It feels like most fans liked Ellen mostly because they didn't see her as someone either Sam or Dean would sleep with, whereas they did with Jo, and they were vocal about not liking her. I *loved* Jo. And I loved the idea of Bela, although I thought they didn't do enough with her character, or do it right. I even liked Ruby -- not *like* liked, but she served a purpose and she was spunky and a good source of conflict.

I thought Bela was so poorly executed. Not so much how the character herself was written, but how Dean and Sam reacted to her that I hated every time she showed up onscreen. She made them into idiots, and I really didn't like that.

I liked S3 Ruby and not S4. I can barely even handle her in fic (she never seems to show up in S3 fic). I didn't like Genevieve's acting, and I always thought the character was up to no good. I don't even like fic that redeems her. But, hey, I'm pissed that people are having Gabriel sleep with the boys before Hammer Of The Gods or giving Crowley wings. I have issues.

Always liked Jo and Ellen though.