Amy I'd read that story you mentioned.

Wasn't it lovely? Just really sad but also sort of bittersweet, and realistic to the situation. In my head, anyway.

It's feels like women hating women solely for being woman and it sincerely depresses me.

Also this, so much. It feels like most fans liked Ellen mostly because they didn't see her as someone either Sam or Dean would sleep with, whereas they did with Jo, and they were vocal about not liking her. I *loved* Jo. And I loved the idea of Bela, although I thought they didn't do enough with her character, or do it right. I even liked Ruby -- not *like* liked, but she served a purpose and she was spunky and a good source of conflict.

I thought Bela was so poorly executed. Not so much how the character herself was written, but how Dean and Sam reacted to her that I hated every time she showed up onscreen. She made them into idiots, and I really didn't like that.

I liked S3 Ruby and not S4. I can barely even handle her in fic (she never seems to show up in S3 fic). I didn't like Genevieve's acting, and I always thought the character was up to no good. I don't even like fic that redeems her. But, hey, I'm pissed that people are having Gabriel sleep with the boys before Hammer Of The Gods or giving Crowley wings. I have issues.

Always liked Jo and Ellen though.

I definitely don't see Dean/Lisa as any sort of fodder for PWP. But I also don't see grand romance and epic love in their futures. Which leaves me with very layered, complex amalgamations of rebound sex, comfort sex, abstinent friendship (mostly this, honestly), and whatever else doesn't equate to a healthy relationship.

I mean, in all honesty, i see Dean crashing on her couch for weeks and months, and maybe somewhere in there is the rebound/comfort/mercy fuck. Which could make for a great fic, with all it's emotional resonance.

But hey, that's too much imagination and work. Let's make them porn stars again and have Zacharriah be issue*.

*not meaning to pick on just the one author this is appropriate to.

i see Dean crashing on her couch for weeks and months, and maybe somewhere in there is the rebound/comfort/mercy fuck. Which could make for a great fic, with all it's emotional resonance.

Isn't that half the post-finale D/C fics, though? Some spend more time with it than others, but the one you didn't like spent a lot of time on why Dean and Lisa didn't work.

It feels like most fans liked Ellen mostly because they didn't see her as someone either Sam or Dean would sleep with, whereas they did with Jo, and they were vocal about not liking her. I *loved* Jo. And I loved the idea of Bela, although I thought they didn't do enough with her character, or do it right. I even liked Ruby -- not *like* liked, but she served a purpose and she was spunky and a good source of conflict.

Man, I loved the idea of Dean/Ellen. Oddly, I got a maternal vibe with she and Sam, so no sexin' there. But Dean? Awesome.

I hated Bela. And I hate that I feel like I have to justify it or explain that I don't hate it because she was a girl and pretty. I hate it because she was a horrible character that was horribly written. Plus she shot Sam. I don't forgive the hurting of Sam and I don't think Dean does either.

Ruby? I loved Katie's Ruby. Her snark and love of fried potatoes, especially. Gen's Ruby only redemption for me was her "recycling" line.

I don't forgive the hurting of Sam and I don't think Dean does either.

Except they were all relatively pally pally and being worked over by her next time she showed up. At least as my memory serves, she conned them continuously. I have read people saying that it's nice when Dean amd Sam aren't always the smartest people in the room, but come on! They get fucked over and make dumb decisions all the time.

I do like to think that they can learn from some of their mistakes, and hold sensible grudges. But that didn't seem to take place with Bela around.

Oh, I love Dean/Ellen. Hell, I've written it a couple times. But I don't think a lot of fandom saw them as a possible couple.

I hate it because she was a horrible character that was horribly written.

I liked the *idea* of the character, I guess. Someone as deep into the supernatural as they were, but strictly for her own gain, rather than to save anyone. A woman with (potential) agency and motives outside of hero! But they did misuse her, and they totally fucked up her backstory.

What I hate most of all, I think, is that my feeling is that they freaked when fans hated her and backed off rather than doing something better, or having, you know, the courage of their intentions, if not convictions.

I liked the *idea* of the character, I guess. Someone as deep into the supernatural as they were, but strictly for her own gain, rather than to save anyone. A woman with (potential) agency and motives outside of hero! But they did misuse her, and they totally fucked up her backstory.

See, that version of Bela would of been fantastic. Pity they didn't do that.

I do like to think that they can learn from some of their mistakes, and hold sensible grudges. But that didn't seem to take place with Bela around.

Precisely.

See, that version of Bela would of been fantastic. Pity they didn't do that.

Ditto.

In this, I blame the writers. The character was cool in theory (very Lilah-esque, actually, without the context of the evilest law firm), and Lauren Cohan struck me as a good actress. But the lobotomy ray the writers felt compelled to hit Sam and Dean with whenever she was involved made me dread her every reappearance.