The hole wasn't just a portal to hell, it was entry into the same sort of cage that Lucifer was in before the seals were broken, wasn't it? Which I thought was more hidden from everyone (demons, angels, whoever) than a place of torture, per se. Do I have that wrong?
My god...he's gonna do the whole speech.
Buffy ,'Chosen'
Supernatural 2: Why is it our job to save everybody?
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-t - Jul 20, 2010 9:08:01 am PDT #12025 of 30002
I am a woman of various inclinations and only some of the time are they to burn everything down in frustration
Amy - Jul 20, 2010 9:09:04 am PDT #12026 of 30002
Because books.
I think you're both right, -t and Debet. I had forgotten that part.
Morgana - Jul 20, 2010 9:11:16 am PDT #12027 of 30002
"I make mistakes, but I am on the side of Good," the Golux said, "by accident and happenchance.” – The 13 Clocks, James Thurber
But didn't he still rule things from there? He gave orders to Azazel and Lilith, so he was obviously putting plans in motion. He had ways to contact his minions. He was able to reach out and contact Sam and Nick.
Amy - Jul 20, 2010 9:12:40 am PDT #12028 of 30002
Because books.
No, he didn't contact Nick until the seal was broken and he was out. And Sam not until he was in Nick's body.
Morgana - Jul 20, 2010 9:16:18 am PDT #12029 of 30002
"I make mistakes, but I am on the side of Good," the Golux said, "by accident and happenchance.” – The 13 Clocks, James Thurber
Ah, after I wrote that I wasn't sure of the progression of his appearances.
-t - Jul 20, 2010 9:17:20 am PDT #12030 of 30002
I am a woman of various inclinations and only some of the time are they to burn everything down in frustration
But didn't he still rule things from there?
That's not the impression I had. I figure up until he was released everyone working for him was going on legend and prophecy and whatnot rather than orders.
§ ita § - Jul 20, 2010 9:17:52 am PDT #12031 of 30002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
It will be like having Meg possess him, ramped up a thousandfold.
Except he missed the entire Meg thing and only angsted about it in retrospect. Whereas Lucifer can choose to communicate with him if he wishes. So if it is the same, I don't think it's that harmful--Lucifer won't be able to commit much mayhem, unless it's on Adam/Michael.
It's perfectly possible that Luci spends his entire time tormenting Sam, which would be hard to come back from.
Or, maybe not.
Dean refers to the place Sam's going to as Hell, for what it's worth.
DebetEsse - Jul 20, 2010 9:20:10 am PDT #12032 of 30002
Woe to the fucking wicked.
Assuming we can believe anything Ruby said, many of the demons didn't know for sure that Lifer even existed, so if he was making contact, it was not wide-spread.
Amy - Jul 20, 2010 9:22:04 am PDT #12033 of 30002
Because books.
I'm reading the SuperWiki, and it says no one communicated with Lucifer until Azazel found his cage, and only then were they able to concoct the plan to make sure Sam was his vessel.
Which still doesn't make a lot of sense if Heaven had already prophesied that Dean and Sam would be the vessels when the big showdown came. ETA: Which is why it never made a lot of sense that Azazel that was conducting this last-man-standing showdown at Cold Oak, for me. They're making it sound like Lucifer thought Sam was his choice, but Heaven doesn't seem to agree.
Either way, SuperWiki says that Azazel was Lucifer's only go-between until the last seal was broken.
Morgana - Jul 20, 2010 10:11:50 am PDT #12034 of 30002
"I make mistakes, but I am on the side of Good," the Golux said, "by accident and happenchance.” – The 13 Clocks, James Thurber
Dean refers to the place Sam's going to as Hell, for what it's worth.
I don't know that Dean would know where Lucifer's particularly corner might be, but Castiel seemed pretty sure of it.