I sit with Beverly on the John-love. I may even be the ficwriter in question, because the first episode I saw was "In My Time of Dying", I think. I saw some of season 2 before going back to see season 1, and was surprised that, as you say, there was never anything on screen to support Sam's contention that John was a drunk.

That John wasn't perfect, I think we have to accept. But that John was the abusive bastard Kripke seems to think he was, is not supported by the very text Kripke is creating. And yeah, I'm quite happy they didn't bring JDM back to verbally abuse Dean in DALD, because that would have been taken as John's opinion of Dean, and not Dean's inner self-hate.

Kripke needs to stop talking about John, please. His Daddy Issues, Please Do Not Show Us.

Oh, a very shuddery reprise of Devil's Trap. I don't know. Those two actors face off so well, especially when John's possessed by something evil. I'd like to have seen it, I think.

I am so with you, Bev. So long as we're shown Dean's actual issues and not Kripke's Daddy Issues.

It could be done really well but likely not with show's writing and direction.

Oooh, plot bunny for sale to good owner?

After hearing some of the times when Kripke is allowed to talk about the show, I'm pretty sure that I like a different show than the one he is making. Did people cringe when Joss answered questions? I don't remember that but I was on the fringe fandom back in Buffy prime.

This is why I daily--weekly, at least--give thanks that Bob Singer, Phil Scgriccia, Kim Manners, Jensen Ackles, Jared Padalecki, a host of really wonderful, strong guest actors and a fabulous, dedicated production crew are involved in the show. If it was Kripke casting and directing? Not my show.

Joss, as I remember, was more politic in his comments.

Did people cringe when Joss answered questions?

I think Joss was always too tongue-in-cheek to be cringeworthy (unless flippancy has that effect on you).

I did wonder which subset of fandom was going to get offended every time Fury gave an interview, though.

I really, really thought that the incantation that mentioned Castiel was in Bad Day at Black Rock - so we rewatched that . . . but there's no incantation in BDaBR. It's in Red Skies at Night. We watched the tuxedo scene and the incantaion and yes, indeed - Castiel is invoked.

Has anyone seen that transcribed? And you know, translated?

(We rewatched the pilot last night: yes, they are so damn young. Also, I cannot be mad at John for raising those boys the way that he did given the situation.)

I did wonder which subset of fandom was going to get offended every time Fury gave an interview, though.

Did people ever wonder how Fury could write for a story that they loved? Because this is me with Kripke. Listen to me being all judgmental about someone I don't know. IJS, I have a really strong impression that Kripke and I would vote each other off the island. It would be mutual and happen even before the elimination.

IOSupernaturalN, I was able to watch through "Bugs" last night and thoroughly enjoyed the look of revelation on Sam's face as the idea took hold that maybe John wasn't as bad as he thought.

Wow, I guess Angle [sic] really IS a hottie now!

Angle is acute!

I feel the same way about Kripke, Austin. But then I have to remember that, even though it's gone through much evolution, the original idea and a lot of the atmospheric stuff was Kripke's to begin with.

watch through "Bugs" last night and thoroughly enjoyed the look of revelation on Sam's face

I know! It's so revelatory to rewatch earlier seasons in light of all we now know. I honestly believe the through line of the story is Kripke's, that he's always known where we're going, unlike some other shows' producers, and I have to give him credit for that. He just needs some adjustment on his social issues. Or somebody to stand handy with the big stick of "No!"

He was acutie, but there were times, you have to admit, when he was really obtuse.