You know, my big sister could really beat the crap out of her. I mean, really really.

Dawn ,'Storyteller'


Natter 62: The 62nd Natter  

Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.


Lee - Dec 19, 2008 8:17:15 am PST #7008 of 10002
The feeling you get when your brain finally lets your heart get in its pants.

What are people doing this weekend?

Me: laundry, PARTY at javachik's, hopefully lots of baking.


tommyrot - Dec 19, 2008 8:18:20 am PST #7009 of 10002
Sir, it's not an offence to let your cat eat your bacon. Okay? And we don't arrest cats, I'm very sorry.

I really like this Andrew Sullivan post on the issue:

Taking Yes For An Answer

Dish readers will know my own conflicted feelings about the selection of Rick Warren for the Inaugural Invocation. But feelings must at some point cede to reason. And I sense an understandable but, the more I think about it, misjudged response on the part of my fellow gays and lesbians. In our hurt, we may be pushing away from a real opportunity to engage and win hearts and minds. Here's Glenn Greenwald:

Reasonable arguments can certainly be advanced in defense of the virtues of Obama's post-partisan theory of politics. But it's simply unreasonable to depict any of it as new. It's exactly what Democrats have been clinging to, desperately and mostly with futility, for two decades at least.

I disagree. I think Obama is different. I think the earnestness and sincerity of his campaign, and its generational force, have given us a chance for something new, and I fear that in responding too viscerally to the Warren choice, we may be throwing something very valuable away far too prematurely. There is no question that gays and lesbians have made enormous strides in explaining who we are in the last couple of decades. There is equally no question that Obama has substantively committed his administration to more gay inclusion and gay equality than any president in history. We absolutely do need to be vigilant on this. But we should also understand Obama's attempt to bridge some gaps in America that the Clintons, with their boomer baggage and Dick Morris cynicism, couldn't and didn't. This is what matters. Do gays and lesbians want to be a part of this - or sit fuming on the sidelines at symbolic slights?

I know the arguments against this, and if Obama delivers nothing on gay equality, the critics will have every reason to complain loudly, as they should. But I'm not going there yet. And the truth is: if we cannot engage a Rick Warren on the question of our equality, we may secure a narrow and bitter victory in some states (just as the Christianists won a narrow and bitter victory in California in November). But we will not win the bigger argument and our victories will lack the moral legitimacy they deserve.

The greatest distortion of our politics in this respect is the notion that gays are in some way opposed to faith and in some way that our cause is a function solely of the left. Neither is true. Gay people contribute disproportionately to the religious and spiritual life of this country and we seek no attack on free religion freely expressed and celebrated. I find the idea of silencing my opponents abhorrent. Many gays voted for McCain. I believe in family, which is why I have tried my whole life to integrate my sexual orientation with my own family and finally two summers ago, to become a full part of it as a married man. I love my church, however much pain it still inflicts on itself and others. And I am not alone in this, as I have discovered these past two decades.

If I cannot pray with Rick Warren, I realize, then I am not worthy of being called a Christian. And if I cannot engage him, then I am not worthy of being called a writer. And if we cannot work with Obama to bridge these divides, none of us will be worthy of the great moral cause that this civil rights movement truly is.

The bitterness endures; the hurt doesn't go away; the pain is real. But that is when we need to engage the most, to overcome our feelings to engage in the larger project, to understand that not all our opponents are driven by hate, even though that may be how their words impact us. To turn away from such dialogue is to fail ourselves, to fail our gay brothers and sisters in red state America, and to miss the possibility of the Obama moment.

It can be hard to take yes for an answer. But yes is what Obama is saying. And we should not let our pride or our pain get in the way.

I hope he's right.


Glamcookie - Dec 19, 2008 8:18:52 am PST #7010 of 10002
I know my own heart and understand my fellow man. But I am made unlike anyone I have ever met. I dare to say I am like no one in the whole world. - Anne Lister

  • Tonight: Friends' party
  • Saturday: Friends' party
  • Sunday: Lunch with friend


SuziQ - Dec 19, 2008 8:22:29 am PST #7011 of 10002
Back tattoos of the mother is that you are absolutely right - Ame

What are people doing this weekend?

  • Friday - Orange belt karate test
  • Saturday - Clean house, sorting prezzies, and last minute shopping
  • Sunday - More house cleaning, more last minute shopping, and wrapping
  • Monday - Pick up K-Bug from the airport!!!


SailAweigh - Dec 19, 2008 8:22:46 am PST #7012 of 10002
Nana korobi, ya oki. (Fall down seven times, stand up eight.) ~Yuzuru Hanyu/Japanese proverb

Sometime this weekend: wrap Christmas presents.
Sunday: drop extra blankets off at daughter's place, so the son and d-i-l won't freeze their tookuses off.


Glamcookie - Dec 19, 2008 8:23:10 am PST #7013 of 10002
I know my own heart and understand my fellow man. But I am made unlike anyone I have ever met. I dare to say I am like no one in the whole world. - Anne Lister

No one is saying not to engage in a dialog with those we don't agree with. It's the when and where. I know I'm still feeling raw about the Prop 8 thing so the timing is definitely an issue. It is also an honor to be asked to be part of the inauguration. I personally don't feel that that honor should be extended to someone who doesn't believe that all deserve equal rights.


Lee - Dec 19, 2008 8:28:16 am PST #7014 of 10002
The feeling you get when your brain finally lets your heart get in its pants.

Do people have a brand of ready made pie crusts they like?

(I know they are easy to make, but I have time constraints)


DavidS - Dec 19, 2008 8:29:00 am PST #7015 of 10002
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

Yeah, again with the GC agreement. Engage all you want. Don't put Warren up front after Prop. 8 got defeated. It's like rubbing your nose in it, and validating the opposition to gay marriage. It's the wrong message at the wrong time and extremely hurtful.


Cashmere - Dec 19, 2008 8:30:40 am PST #7016 of 10002
Now tagless for your comfort.

This weekend will be shopping. More shopping. Cleaning, laundry and more shopping.

I've procrastinated a little.


Cashmere - Dec 19, 2008 8:31:28 am PST #7017 of 10002
Now tagless for your comfort.

Perkins, I use Pillsbury (in the refrigerator section) when I am in a rush.