Let him do his thing, and then you get him out. No messing with him for laughs.

Mal ,'Ariel'


Natter 62: The 62nd Natter  

Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.


megan walker - Dec 08, 2008 7:59:19 am PST #4856 of 10002
"What kind of magical sunshine and lollipop world do you live in? Because you need to be medicated."-SFist

Loved this guest column from the NYT "Typing without a clue."

While I certainly agree with him,

The idea that someone who stumbled into a sound bite can be published, and charge $24.95 for said words, makes so many real writers think the world is unfair.

Has he met the world? It's pretty unfair in general.


Liese S. - Dec 08, 2008 7:59:36 am PST #4857 of 10002
"Faded like the lilac, he thought."

Or, or, were-dino robots vs. vampire dino astronauts!


tommyrot - Dec 08, 2008 8:08:25 am PST #4858 of 10002
Sir, it's not an offence to let your cat eat your bacon. Okay? And we don't arrest cats, I'm very sorry.

There needs to be cyborg cavemen and their pet were-poodles....

Since the were-poodles belonged to cave men, their fur would be all matted and dirty, covering up most of the pink color underneath.


Barb - Dec 08, 2008 8:10:19 am PST #4859 of 10002
“Not dead yet!”

There's a pretty interesting argument going on about that column on one of my writers loops-- this one comprised entirely of published authors. There are people who think "Thank you, Tim Egan for saying this!" while others are grousing about the fact that he's just another elitist schlub who would turn his nose up at the majority of commercial fiction that also allows publishing houses to take chances on five hundred page novels comprised of a single sentence and translated from the French. (True deal, btw.) because he mentioned Twain and Dostoevsky and Didion as his examples.

Me-- I think I fall more on the side of what Egan's saying. If he's elitist or not, I have no clue and I think that's another argument altogether. I think he used examples like Twain and Dostoevsky because they're more immediately recognizable to the majority of the American public and come on, it's a column for the New York Times after all.

I do think his point about most writers toiling in obscurity and that most writers don't sit down at a computer over a weekend, peck out a hundred pages and expect to get a six-figure advance is certainly valid, whether he's an elitist snob or not.

And speaking as a writer who's neither fish nor fowl in that I don't fit the genre mold and I don't write Iowa MFA or Breadloaf Workshop literary material, I can't help but feel those ridiculous advances being doled out to Barbara Bush's dog and Joe the plumber is money taken away from taking chances on writers like myself-- who don't fit any particular mold.

Could be I'm just fooling myself, too.


erikaj - Dec 08, 2008 8:17:12 am PST #4860 of 10002
Always Anti-fascist!

Well, if you are, we share a delusion. And, yes, I have read the occasional celebrity book, but I've often thought they'd die a quiet death if they got left to their own grammar, for instance.


msbelle - Dec 08, 2008 8:23:48 am PST #4861 of 10002
I remember the crazy days. 500 posts an hour. Nubmer! Natgbsb

I'm taking a personal day. I am pretty sure we lose them if we don't use them up and I was also pretty sure, that like many of you, I would not feel like working. One bad thing is that we are losing a day on the holiday party planning unless I write up an email to my boss, so I think I'll do that and see if I can get him to make a decision.

SO far I have used my day to clean off my stuff on the Tivo, make a Dr. appt for mac, a brace appt for mac, and call about a homestudy appt for mac's readoption. Oh and I went to mac's school this morning for their writing celebration and listening to kid's read stories they had written. Mac told his teacher, "No", when called on, but did it with a smile on his face and then did the hiding of his face and whatnot so that both kids and adults were laughing and I was horrified and bothered. I have a pretty big problem with him telling a teacher No and then trying to act all cute about it, and no, he did not read his story - she read a page and then he read a page, all the while he was being distracting. The only other child the teacher had to assist in that way, her voice was shaking something awful and she had tears in her eyes, still she got up when asked.

I know I know, over-reactive mother. I think I may just stop going to in-class presentations.


sumi - Dec 08, 2008 8:25:52 am PST #4862 of 10002
Art Crawl!!!

Barb - that's the way I took it. That the money being given to what is essentially an overnight celebrity type book is money not available to one of the 1000s of people who have been actually writing for years and haven't had that break yet.


Amy - Dec 08, 2008 8:32:35 am PST #4863 of 10002
Because books.

But that's not actually true. The money laid out in an advance is carefully P&L'd to death based on how many copies they think they can sell. Which is why celebs get more money, because most of the time more people will buy those books than a first novel by an unknown entity. And it's also why first novels by an unknown entity need a lot of hand-selling and dedicated PR by the publisher to hit a list or even make decent money for anyone, author or publisher.

There's not a finite amount of money to be paid out. Well, there is, but it's based on what they're going to get back, so. It's gambling, essentially.


DavidS - Dec 08, 2008 8:32:57 am PST #4864 of 10002
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

I have heard also that the political books often get bought up in bulk by various politically driven think tanks to drive them up the best seller lists. That it's a form of sanctioned, legal patronage.


Barb - Dec 08, 2008 8:35:14 am PST #4865 of 10002
“Not dead yet!”

Which is why celebs get more money, because most of the time more people will buy those books than a first novel by an unknown entity. And it's also why first novels by an unknown entity need a lot of hand-selling and dedicated PR by the publisher to hit a list or even make decent money for anyone, author or publisher.

Yep. My rational brain knows this and even understands the financial theory.

The toddler brain, however, wants to stomp its feet and throw a tantrum.