The discussion of privilege is pinging me in weird places. Maybe it's because I've never lived in an area with a large non-white population (sub-Appalachian Pennsylvania to Utah, very melanoma lacking). I can recall no conversations in which race was a primary topic. Granted, I was a spectacularly naive child, but when I first met a black person--I didn't realize he was a different "race". He was just someone who looked a little different, and he had neat hair.

Privilege in my life has always been defined in class terms. In a poor area, being able to pay your bills and own your house and have some extra makes you high class. Beyond that, the head of household's profession, did you live in town or not, etc. determined the unspoken pecking order.

My family acknowledged no one as our superiors, but it was never discussed. My mother didn't play any social games that I noticed, so I never learned to kowtow or lord it over anyone. If I was taught to be privileged, it was so very subtle that I doubt my teachers were aware of it.

I don't think I need to feel guilty for being white, and that's what the articles about white feminist privilege and such sound like. I'll accept that I have advantages in America because I'm white. Those advantages should belong to everyone. My husband could tell you stories about being one of three white kids in a predominantly black high school in LA in the 70s that don't have the word advantage anywhere in them--except that his parents gave him a bigger caliber pistol than the other kids had.

Every group of people has to deal with advantage. Every person in that group should be aware of where the advantage lies and if that advantage is unrighteous. Decent human beings should fight to make sure the playing field is as level as practical. If I misuse my advantages, I should be chastised. But I'm not going to feel bad just because I have one.

Urgh. I've got the Jensen Ackles real bad.

Is the treatment a cream or a suppository?

I recommend a little hair of the dog.

Did you read the linked article, Connie? I found it made clear how invisible the privilege is to those who have it and what it consists of. I don't think it called on us to be guilty as much as aware.

Although I also want to say that I think your experience of class privilege is very pervasive as well.

Ok...I know this is not at all on-topic, but I had to share two pictures from the party today (and these will go back behind lock in a minute).

Snowman Cake: [link]

Eating Snowman Cake: [link]

Did you read the linked article, Connie?

I did. It's what made me think that her list of privileges were not so much "white" as "dominant culture."

Mmmm. Yummy cake.

The older I get the more outspoken I have become when exposed to things like racist jokes. I don't tolerate that crap.

I decry racism but can see the struggle with boundaries and what crosses lines and what doesn't, etc. I went to school with, and work with a lot of Filipinos. I pretty much identify in a lot of ways with Filipino culture (I rooted hard for Pacquiao over de la Hoya I tell you what) and my colleagues and I laugh a lot over the Filipinos' (especially the older generation) love of karaoke.

So today, we're out to lunch and I'm asking Ricardo what he's going to do over the holidays and his answer is: "I'm Filipino, you gotta ask? K-A-R-A-O-K-E!"

It was really funny. Should it not have been?

I think the context of the lesbian U-haul joke (which I first heard on E.R. years ago) is simply not hurtful. It might be a stereotype, but not all stereotypes are hurtful, right? Context is important, and I believe that it's worth it to take the time to consider the who/what/why/where of things that are supposed to be funny.

I say this as someone who has ended a friendship like a snapped twig with someone who said the "n" word out loud. I take racism and bigotry really seriously, but understand that comedy is subjective. Hell, even the "a joke isn't funny if no one is laughing" comeback doesn't really work because it's not the absence or presence of laughter that defines racism. Lots of rednecks laugh themselves silly over saying shit about people; doesn't make it okay just because they're laughing.

But it's different to make a joke based on one's own group than for a group to laugh at a joke about a race or nationality not even present. It's different for my Jewish husband to make a joke about how few Jews are on Survivor than it is for my WASPY former in-laws to joke to each other about camping with Jews and how they always want the "dry corner of the tent." Both are based on stereotypes, but one is inclusive and one is exclusive.

That looks like a fun and tasty cake.

I figure if one person feels uncomfortable about a joke -- than it probably is racist/sexist or otherwise offensive. There are some areas where people chose to do something ( like take drugs , sleep with a nonspouse while in public office or even join a particular political party) that are often ( but not always ) fair game. Things there is little choice over, not going to lend themselves to funny jokes.

like Laura, I take less an less from people. Mostly, I tend to walk away. In the right circumstances, I ask a question that might get someone to think. And I refuse to justify my feelings of offense. ( that was awkwardly phrased) I live in the bay area -- I see the reasons for a number of stereotypes. But I have seen exceptions to every stereotypes.

and once again VW, do what makes you feel comfortable with CBD. When Dh broke up with me ( long before he was DH) I would have had to hide at home to not see him. So, I still did what I wanted to do. But I drew mental lines -- and if Matt wanted to 'talk' and I didn't want to -- I didn't.

But it's different to make a joke based on one's own group than for a group to laugh at a joke about a race or nationality not even present. It's different for my Jewish husband to make a joke about how few Jews are on Survivor than it is for my WASPY former in-laws to joke to each other about camping with Jews and how they always want the "dry corner of the tent." Both are based on stereotypes, but one is inclusive and one is exclusive.

Right. I don't think we disagree. I think context covers that too, and you're completely right with the exclusive versus inclusive aspect.

But I don't necessarily agree with the "if someone finds it offensive" than it is notion. The listener has the responsibility to be an adult and realize that not everything in the world is about *them*. As an example, there are people who might feel offended if I say that I don't believe in god. That doesn't mean I am offensive; it means they're too sensitive or judgmental.

I have had people tell me that I offend them when I talk about my Atheism - usually it's a situation where someone asks me where I go to church and I say, "at Pacific Bell Park" and smile sweetly. Most of the time they realize what a nosy question it is, and my answer quiets them. But I've had people tell me that it's offensive to equate a baseball field with a church. Come on, people! Grow up!

And now I am out on a tangent, sorry! Okay, gotta run to pick up an item off of Craigslist.