I love that top picture of the corset, ita, but are all those top three pictures of the same outfit? I can't quite tell...and then I can't decide quite how I feel about it. Or if I would like it quite as well on someone who wasn't quite as prettily shaped as the girl modeling it. :)

Am avoiding work for a moment, after a small victory. I almost had to stay near the airport, just because they have some ridiculous rate negotiated with a hotel there. Um, seriously, just because you can stay at a hotel for $150 there does NOT mean I can get $150 rate anywhere ELSE in LA. What kind of crack are you people smoking?? NOR does it mean I should have to stay at the airport and DRIVE CROSS TOWN every day!!!! cracksmokers. Luckily, they relented. Phew.

I'm really lucky I grew up without serious class issues. Both of my folks were from the same dirt poor county in Eastern Kentucky and DH's folks were in the same economic class, for the most part. We had very similar upbringings: One generation away from genuine poverty.

We were proud, though, and never felt inferior in any social setting because my mom reinforced good manners and education was stressed as the key to rising above our origins so that was cool.

I find the discussion fascinating, though.

Ashkenazi immigrants (from the various European and Eastern European areas) were always (and by "always" I mean, of course, the last 100-and-a-bit years, because there was hardly anybody here before that)

Ummm there were actually a fair number of people there before that - just mostly Arab .

Obviously.

From the topic of the conversation, though, I hoped it was clear that I was referring to the Jewish population of what later became the state of Israel, which had been at least an order of magnitude smaller than what it became after even those first waves of immigration, which the whole post was about.

On my mom's side, I am Old-Money-Except-Poor. Her family HAD money--with everyone college educated and in the DAR and the girls making the Grand Tour before marriage, etc. up until the Depression, when they lost it all. My Dad's parents were textbook poor. His dad was one of 12 kids born to a Jewish shopkeeper and his French-Canadian wife and his mom was a Finish immigrant who grew up in an orphanage.

I think there is a distinct class the author did not mention which I would call the Academic class. Professors, people in publishing, Scientists (hell, most Buffistas)--all these people don't have money but do have their own distinct set of values. The love of knowledge and culture and disinterest in the trappings of wealth is common in this group, no matter what class they started from. I grew up with people who would spend money on a season ticket for the Ballet, but not on a new couch.

My Mother's side of the family were largely clergy and teachers -- so educated and with a certain status but no money to speak of.

My Father's side were farmers (maternal) and upper class (paternal) who lost their cash (twice, actually -- American branch of the family in '29, Cuban branch in '59).

I grew up financially lower class but socially middle class. In some ways it gives me perspective, in others I never quite fit in.

I think the material in the original article is most useful for people with no sense of any life experience but their own or people with a very narrow and firm defintion of "normal".

And obviously I thought it was worth mentioning to make explicit to avoid any (I'm sure) unintentional implication on your part that Arabperson. That may be more important in he U.S. than in Israel - cause anti-Palestinian rhetoric that I'm pretty sure is seen as extremist in Israeli politics is seen conservative pro-Israeli here, and advocating for policies that are (for example) part of the standard Labor Party platform in Israel gets dismissed as anti-Semetic here. So I think it important not to say things that imply that non-Jews are not people, even if that is not the intent. Cause the idea that Palestinians are not people or are less worthy people or whatever is pretty damn common in the U.S., and not unknown in Israel.

Typo Boy, I definitely did not mean what you saw as a possible interpretation of my post, and couldn't even imagine it as a possible interpretation. I'm sorry if the way I phrased myself bothered you.

New money has a movie theatre in the basement. What's so cool about old money again?

Being able to keep the riffraff out of the yacht club.

Why does my big!Boss constantly change the names of our business and not tell us? Is it because she is from 'new money"???

Seriously, though, if you don't tell the people who work in your business line that they have a new name, what is the point and how are people going to know?

I think there is a distinct class the author did not mention which I would call the Academic class. Professors, people in publishing, Scientists (hell, most Buffistas)--all these people don't have money but do have their own distinct set of values. The love of knowledge and culture and disinterest in the trappings of wealth is common in this group, no matter what class they started from. I grew up with people who would spend money on a season ticket for the Ballet, but not on a new couch.

Scrappy is me! My parents grew up dirt poor, but they came from families who valued education--in part because on my mom's side I come from a long line of public school teachers (and if you think teachers get paid badly now, you should see what they made back then).

My mom grew up in a ramshackle farmhouse with her two brothers raising animals and keeping a huge vegetable garden in order to have a source of food. Her parents both taught school of one sort or another, but their parents were all farmers. They were decidedly working poor, but they were well educated. Two of the three kids went on to college--my mom became a public school teacher, and one uncle became an architect. The other uncle became a maintenance worker/custodian.

On my dad's side, his father served two tours in WWII and then became completely disabled (he was paralyzed from the neck down) from polio shortly after getting home. My grandmother graduated at the top of her college class, but she spent her life as a homemaker and caretaker. They were solidly lower middle class until my grandfather's illness, at which point every penny was precious. Supporting four kids on one disabled veteran's pension wasn't easy. Yet all four kids went to college, working their way through waiting tables and such. One aunt became a nurse, one a financial/marketing person, and my dad and his younger sister both became public school teachers.

It's an odd thing, growing up with parents from backgrounds like this. They both are very frugal and hold a lot of middle class values, but education has always been the most valuable thing to their families. It was a ticket out of poverty. My cousins range from new money wealthy (working in computers, marketing, etc.), middle class (teachers, nurses, etc.), and blue collar (construction etc.). Believe me, class becomes an issue even at family gatherings at some points.

And yeah, my dad would spent money on season tickets for the orchestra, but we always had second-hand furniture and such.