but I do understand why a college-age student might honestly believe that ethics is an outmoded concept.

I don't. I see how they may get that message some times, but I don't see how they could completely dismiss it.

but I do understand why a college-age student might honestly believe that ethics is an outmoded concept

I have to say, I ran into this a lot as an older adult completing a bachelor's degree, but I don't understand it. Could you help this old fuddy-duddy understand where they're coming from? I make no guarentee I will understand, but I want to find out how these kids are thinking and if I think there's hope for them, yet.

I guess I understand how some people might think ethics didn't really matter -- there seems to be a lot of effort put forth to divorce effect from cause in people's minds, but actions still have consequences whether we think otherwise or no.

Sure, ethics might almost seem an impediment to achieving wealth, power, or whatever, but that doesn't change the fact that people who achieve wealth, power or whatever in very unethical ways pretty much universally leave destruction and other profound negative effects in their wake.

That's why ethics matter, even if you think they don't.

That's why ethics matter, even if you think they don't.

If other people doesn't matter, neither does their destruction, and how negative are the after-effects then?

I will not lie. I will not cheat. I will not steal.

Isn't that the cadet's creed? Or part of it?

I think that creed is from West Point, and this is ROTC,

My brother went to West Point, and the way I remember it, it ran, "I will not lie, cheat or steal, and I will not tolerate those who do." Cadets there were expected to report themselves for infractions, if for no other reason than to spare someone else the need to do so. There is also that "Duty, Honor, Country" thing. I'm on Joe's side here for sure. His clear duty is to see to it that the appropriate consequence falls on this cadet for cheating. I think people only think cheating is not that serious when it is for something that does not matter. After all, nobody wants to fly in a plane piloted by a guy who cheated on his eye exam. Saying it is ok for this kid to cheat and get away with it, is saying that ROTC does not matter. Personally, I think it does.

Sure, ethics might almost seem an impediment to achieving wealth, power, or whatever, but that doesn't change the fact that people who achieve wealth, power or whatever in very unethical ways pretty much universally leave destruction and other profound negative effects in their wake.

In a study by the guy that wrote The Millionaire Next Door, the most common characteristic used (by other people) to describe multi-millionaires was "integrity".

well, snce starting this job,, joe's standard in general, has been "is this person qualified to lead my daughter in combat someday" (if Ellie were to grow up to be a soldier someday). From that perspective, I think ethics are crucial because I think it represents the best possibility for her to come home in one piece.

I'm taking a huge shortcut there but the iPhone makes it hard to write long posts.

also, what ita said

Huge shortcut or not, I think you nailed it, Stephanie.

"Boing" or "boink"?