Zoe: What's that, sir? Mal: Freedom, is what. Zoe: No, I meant what's that? Mal: Oh. Yeah. Just step around it. I think something must've been living in here.

'Out Of Gas'


The Great Write Way, Act Three: Where's the gun?

A place for Buffistas to discuss, beta and otherwise deal and dish on their non-fan fiction projects.


Beverly - Sep 03, 2008 6:27:26 am PDT #854 of 6681
Days shrink and grow cold, sunlight through leaves is my song. Winter is long.

Oh honey, you know I'm gentle. Plus, there's never much wrong.*

I am curious what he had to say, comparing his and yours, though. I was not ruthless with his chapter, but I was honest, and I winced about it a little bit after I sent it. He wrote me the sweetest thank you note.

*Where "wrong"="might need to be tweaked."


Barb - Sep 03, 2008 7:18:29 am PDT #855 of 6681
“Not dead yet!”

I was not ruthless with his chapter, but I was honest, and I winced about it a little bit after I sent it.

Bev is me here. I was the same way, wincing and all. which Allyson well knows.


Allyson - Sep 03, 2008 7:57:58 am PDT #856 of 6681
Wait, is this real-world child support, where the money goes to buy food for the kids, or MRA fantasyland child support where the women just buy Ferraris and cocaine? -Jessica

It helped him push through it, and he sent me a rocking draft, with fleshed out fight scene, bolder description...he rose to it. Which means I'm not facing enormous rewrites.

No wincing. He's crash-coursing it. I'm proud of him. It's been lovely to watch someone bloom.

The book is something that I've been wanting to quit. I can't keep the narrative arc up, I'm not imaginative enough to make it compelling fiction. It's all very amateurish, and I feel ashamed of what I've written.

Sobbed good and hard in the shower.


Beverly - Sep 03, 2008 8:08:54 am PDT #857 of 6681
Days shrink and grow cold, sunlight through leaves is my song. Winter is long.

I'm resisting my usual "sweetheart" here, with some effort.

It is *not* amateurish, it's juvenile. Which is what it needs to be, as a kids' book. There's no need to "keep up" the narrative arc. Do you know the points Sam is going to hit on his journey? I think you've outlined them before. So all you do is tell his story, point to point.

Realistically, you've done that, with very few off-point wavers, and a wobble or two in POV: while Sam's story is being told by an adult with a snarky sensibility--refreshing in kids' lit--it needs to stay fairly factual in details because you're talking to kids. This is not a Disney version of How Lion Prides Work. The Lion King gives me *HIVES* with all the bad wrong information--it's not even really good storytelling, because you could actually tell much the same story and stay mostly factual to how nature actually works.

Which, okay, is a hobby horse of mine, and Kipling be damned.

But. Your stuff is whimsical where it works and reasonably factual where it teaches, which is exactly what it should be. No crying in the shower. Well, beyond what's just compulsory as part of the whole getting-through things.

Your truly unique voice is coming through, even though this is a kids' story. And Sam is a real boybat, and I'm eager to find out what happens to him on his journey to adulthood. As will all your readers be, regardless of age.


Laga - Sep 03, 2008 8:11:32 am PDT #858 of 6681
You should know I'm a big deal in the Resistance.

Allyson I'm coming at the story as more of a fan than an editor. I've done proofreading for friends in college but I got so wrapped up in the story (and I'm only halfway through part 3) that I've had trouble noticing anything I would change. I think I saw a typo somewhere in part I. I will re-read and make notes and send them your way tonight at the latest. Is there a specific kind of notes you're looking for?

I'm not imaginative enough to make it compelling fiction.

wrong! (see above re: wrapped up in the story)

It's all very amateurish,

also wrong.

and I feel ashamed of what I've written.

wrong on so many levels.

edit: or what Beverly said, much more eloquently than I.


Allyson - Sep 03, 2008 8:20:18 am PDT #859 of 6681
Wait, is this real-world child support, where the money goes to buy food for the kids, or MRA fantasyland child support where the women just buy Ferraris and cocaine? -Jessica

There's got to be something wrong for me to feel this much shame about the writing, though. And I can't find a solution.


Barb - Sep 03, 2008 8:28:33 am PDT #860 of 6681
“Not dead yet!”

There's got to be something wrong for me to feel this much shame about the writing, though. And I can't find a solution.

I'm not saying this from a hairpat standpoint, Allyson, I'm saying this as one professional writer to another-- the good writers-- the ones who last-- rarely, if ever, feel completely confident in their writing. We sit here and we sweat (not in the Cliff Burns over every word sort of way) and we cry (and God knows, I've done my share of sobbing over the keyboard and in the shower lately) and suffer crises of confidence and are convinced we suck.

And then we go back to the keyboard and we do our damndest to put our best work down. And still, we're never convinced it's as good as it can be. That's why we keep getting better. And it's what we put into our work-- that extra bit of soul, that makes it stick with readers. And your work-- it does that. It stays with readers.

It's kind of how Tom Hanks explained baseball in A League of Their Own-- if it was easy, everyone would do it. And it's the people who think writing's easy or that their work is the absolute shit without working at it, who produce the biggest loads of crap.

You don't do that.


Scrappy - Sep 03, 2008 8:30:00 am PDT #861 of 6681
Life moves pretty fast. You don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.

Most writers tend to hate what they write while in process, Allyson, that's one of the reasons writing is so damn hard. Early drafts involve endlessely dealing with one's limitations and it's frustrating and depressing as hell. At least I always find it to be so, and so have most writers I know. Good writers--like you.

What I think you need to work on is your tendency to make hating on the writing to hating on yourself. You need to work on boundaries, since that the work you do is separate from you and not a referendum on you as a person. Your first drafts will always suck and you will always question their validity and whether your story/words/ideas/ are any good--that's part of the process. Ice fishing requires hours in the cold, writing requires doubts and frustration. The time spent in the cold does not make the ice fisherman a bad person, and the doubts don't make you one either.


Laga - Sep 03, 2008 8:32:36 am PDT #862 of 6681
You should know I'm a big deal in the Resistance.

I've read poorly written (published!) stuff that the authors should have felt ashamed of and this isn't it. I know the voices in your head can be hard to ignore but are the voices outside, those telling you that your story is engaging and well written, are they helping?


Connie Neil - Sep 03, 2008 8:42:21 am PDT #863 of 6681
brillig

If you do decide it's a failure--which it doesn't seem to be--I found a comforting quote:

"Failure after long perseverance is much grander than never to have a striving good enough to be called a failure." - George Eliot -