You're not gonna jokey-rhyme your way out of this one.

Willow ,'Sleeper'


The Great Write Way, Act Three: Where's the gun?

A place for Buffistas to discuss, beta and otherwise deal and dish on their non-fan fiction projects.


Susan W. - Jul 07, 2008 7:26:46 am PDT #305 of 6681
Good Trouble and Righteous Fights

I hope you're right, but at this point I can't imagine an editor saying anything but, "Already read this," and if no editor will buy it, it doesn't matter what readers will think.

Sigh. I should've known this would happen. I love my story, but I don't know what to do. And, damn it, I wasn't trying to be derivative of Novik, except insofar as I'm writing Napoleonic-era alternative history. I have no delusions of being perfectly original--I completely admit that at least one major plot line in my story is hella derivative of the Sharpe series, to the point I actually wrote Bernard Cornwell to make sure he'd be cool with it (and he was, pointing out that he doesn't have a patent on any character types or plot devices...advice I may actually find reassuring once I climb down from my current ledge). But it's one thing to do something like that on purpose, and even as something of a homage. It's another to have it hit you in the face just as you're finishing a rough draft and thinking of where and how to market a story.

I mean, maybe this is OK. The similarities probably aren't as big as they seem. If nothing else, Novik's Napoleon is completely unlike mine, so it stands to reason her Wellesley will be too. But it does mean I've now lost whatever points for "unique, clever, and original high concept plot" I had.


SailAweigh - Jul 07, 2008 7:39:39 am PDT #306 of 6681
Nana korobi, ya oki. (Fall down seven times, stand up eight.) ~Yuzuru Hanyu/Japanese proverb

pointing out that he doesn't have a patent on any character types or plot devices...advice I may actually find reassuring once I climb down from my current ledge

Back away from the ledge, Susan. The cool thing about alternative history is that there are so. many. alternatives. You've written one of them. Similarity to someone else's is only by virtue of the people/time period and that is what you are all tinkering with. In your own, unique, way.

Personally, I'm tired of Novik's dragons. I had a very hard time reading the third book and bailed less than half-way through the fourth. I'll take a peek at five and see if I want to go back and finish up four. Four just dragged so damn much, but if five picks up the pace again, I may go back just so I have any necessary details in mind while reading five.


Jesse - Jul 07, 2008 7:52:19 am PDT #307 of 6681
Sometimes I trip on how happy we could be.

"Already read this WITH DRAGONS" is really a whole different animal than "already read this." Even if Novik was selling at JK Rowling levels, which she's not, so there's a much larger category of people who won't have already read it. I would imagine most of the alternate history audience wouldn't read fantasy, anyway.


Susan W. - Jul 07, 2008 8:02:51 am PDT #308 of 6681
Good Trouble and Righteous Fights

Well...my set-up is as follows. I may delete it in a few hours, but it no longer feels so important to keep the whole idea a secret:

Horatio Nelson dies of yellow fever in Jamaica at the age of 21. In his absence, though the British navy is still superior to the French, it's never able to attain the same level of complete dominance, and Napoleon is able to launch a successful invasion of England in 1805. A few weeks after the invasion, Arthur Wellesley (that would be Wellington to those of you who know him from our timeline) arrives home from a lengthy posting in India, and rather than turn himself in to the authorities he goes fugitive, linking up with a little band of soldiers who've escaped French captivity and eventually with 9-year-old runaway Queen Charlotte (because I conveniently kill off George III and Prinny in the aftermath of the invasion to make her the sovereign). Then, gradually, over the course of 4 books or so, our heroes build their strength and form unlikely alliances to take their country back. If I can write it right, the core of the story will be the sort of "Scooby Gang" (and, yes, I call them that in my notes and when talking them over with my CPs) that grows up around Wellesley, especially the close friendship and brothers-in-arms bond between him and one of the original escaped soldiers (which I guess makes the whole story as much of an Aubrey/Maturin riff as a Sharpe one...but I really don't worry about the derivative issue with long-established series where one of the authors is dead and the other is old enough to be my father and was already writing the series when I was in grade school).

I guess the only thing to do is keep going and figure out how to pitch this as "like Temeraire (and Sharpe and Aubrey/Maturin), but different" as opposed to "look at my completely cool and totally unique take on the Napoleonic-era adventure story!"


Ginger - Jul 07, 2008 8:03:51 am PDT #309 of 6681
"It didn't taste good. It tasted soooo horrible. It tasted like....a vodka martini." - Matilda

Susan, you have to write the book you want to write, not the book you think will sell. It sounds like you've put real love into your current book and to stop writing it because another book might be kind of like it is insane troll logic. I like alternate history. I'd have to be convinced to read alternate history with dragons. I read at least two mystery series in which the main character is a PI who sticks with a case no matter what. Aside from the same scenery, they're entirely different.


CaBil - Jul 07, 2008 8:20:42 am PDT #310 of 6681
Remember, remember/the fifth of November/the Gunpowder Treason and Plot/I see no reason/Why Gunpowder Treason/Should ever be forgot.

If you are that worried, push Charlotte more. That is your big original bit of alternative history, because I haven't really seen or read anything that focused on Charlotte. So if you are worried about the originality aspect, figure out how to use Charlotte more aggressively and prominently.


Susan W. - Jul 07, 2008 8:31:12 am PDT #311 of 6681
Good Trouble and Righteous Fights

Well, I think she would become more prominent as the series goes on, particularly if it were to become successful enough that I could write beyond the four books or so I have planned and take her into her late teens and early 20's. I mean, there's only so much I can do with a little kid in what's primarily an adult military action-adventure story. I do like the idea of exploring what England might've looked like if Charlotte never died in childbirth and there was therefore never a Victoria. But this is Wellesley's story, really--it's the idea of having to give up his character that would most break my heart if I had to stop writing it. And I can only see myself writing him as a protagonist in an alternative history. If I were writing real world, he'd at most get a cameo. I have zero interest in writing biographical fiction (and I barely even read it), because I already know how it ends and I can't mess with his head by throwing him into situations he never had to face IRL.

That's the core of it. I don't want have to to stop throwing Arthur Wellesley into strange situations and using them to challenge his spicy brains and unravel his certainties. It's just too damn fun to mess with his head...


Typo Boy - Jul 07, 2008 9:55:16 am PDT #312 of 6681
Calli: My people have a saying. A man who trusts can never be betrayed, only mistaken.Avon: Life expectancy among your people must be extremely short.

Susan. Really Really don't change your story because of what some other author does. Just don't. Heinlein used to say that there are really only three plots: boy meets girl and variants, the brave little tailor, and the man who learned better. There is of course an obvious feminist critique of the phrasing, but fundamentally he was right. There are NO original plots. It all lies in the execution. Is your writing style exactly the same as nemesis, the Dread Pirate Novik? Is your world building, your sense of what the times is like the same? Don't worry about superficial similarities.

Listen to the wisdom of Sondheim:

Every moment makes a contribution,
Every little detail plays a part.
Having just a vision's no solution,.
Everything depends on execution
Putting it together, that's what counts!

And you are doing just that! Don't worry about similarities between one sentence descriptions. Someone creative in marketing can come up with a new one sentence description.


Dana - Jul 07, 2008 10:01:17 am PDT #313 of 6681
"I'm useless alone." // "We're all useless alone. It's a good thing you're not alone."

I feel pretty safe in saying, not that you were worried about this, but Naomi is not at all the type of person who would run around pointing fingers and accusing people of copying.


Susan W. - Jul 07, 2008 10:27:46 am PDT #314 of 6681
Good Trouble and Righteous Fights

It all lies in the execution. Is your writing style exactly the same as nemesis, the Dread Pirate Novik? Is your world building, your sense of what the times is like the same?

Well, no, not at all. I'd even go so far as to say they're extremely different.

I feel pretty safe in saying, not that you were worried about this, but Naomi is not at all the type of person who would run around pointing fingers and accusing people of copying.

Yeah, I know. I'm more afraid everybody else will!