Also, from that article,

"Parents tell me all the time that: 'My child is my greatest source of joy'," he said.

"My reply is that: 'Yes, when you have one source of joy, it's bound to be your greatest'.

The thing is, my children do bring me a lot of joy (and stress and worry). But so do cupcakes. And flannel pjs. And naps. and Yoga. I get lots of joy in my life. But I'm lucky!

Children have to be sources of joy because otherwise they would be left in baskets to be raised by wolves. Providing joy is a distinct evolutionary advantage.

In serious agreement with Jessica.

Did I mention the fall out of the plumber fiasco. We are now on day 5 and we finally connected with the plumber. Apparently the landlord needs to replace the entire pipe from house to street. Thus tearing up the beautiful yard for a bit and costing $5000.

I love this house and would consider saving to buy it (it was listed for sale when we moved in). Living in it is like a nice test drive.

Thanks for the link, billytea. That confirms what I believed about children, but I would love to see how the "happiness" of marriage varied by gender.

Don't get me wrong, I adore my fabulous, brilliant, beautiful nieces and nephews and have played a significant role in their lives since the day they were born. I wanted children in my twenties and then a switch just flipped one day and I no longer had any desire to sacrifice that much of my life.

I applaud those that do and manage to do it well, but I don't see how it should be a universal goal or some measure of success to pro-create.

I get a fuckload of joy out of other peoples' kids. Even when I've been the primary temporarily and they are doing shit like bloody headwounds and ADHD meltdowns that require full-body smackdowns.

I think I'd like being a parent. I'm one of those who doesn't fear it (until they are teenagers and then all bets are off!) but... I'm currently choosing to NOT be a parent. I allow for a change in that choice, though I don't see it likely, and often resent the "oh someday you will" shit. Very unlikely, in fact. I suspect I'd only have a kid because (and this sounds funky) someone I loved Like That really wanted one. Absent that, the drive ain't there.

But I'd really like to babysit your kids! I'm blown away that I got to see childbirth and flustered that I get to be proxy-godmother absent religion. Both things, I never expected to experience. But I've got lovely friends, and while I may not experience labor personally, I got to see a baby born. And hold him in my arms.

I've got lovely friends.

Children have to be sources of joy because otherwise they would be left in baskets to be raised by wolves. Providing joy is a distinct evolutionary advantage.

I think children are a source of joy, but that argument is somewhat dubious. Evolutionarily speaking, you need commitment rather than joy. For example, if kids caused a parent anxiety for their wellbeing than joy, that'd still work out.

I think it was someone on these boards who recently described raising children as being a fairly constant source of extra struggle and frustration, punctuated with occasional moments of great joy. I suspect the article suffers from a time-related bias in this regard. If the guy is just asking about how people feel within the day-to-day effort, he might not be asking the right questions to get at what kids really mean to their parents.

Thanks for the link, billytea. That confirms what I believed about children, but I would love to see how the "happiness" of marriage varied by gender.

Yes, I don't know of results for that offhand, but I do recall that the life expectancy for married men is significantly higher than for single men (of the same age), while married women see a small decline in life expectancy compared to single women.

It's hard to see too far past my current mood, but I really don't want kids. I'd kind of assumed I'd have some, but it was never something I'd consider doing on my own, or even something that felt like it would be a dealbreaker going into a relationship.

But had I gotten pregnant accidentally I'd have gone to term.

I've watched a couple relationships around me end because of kidlings and or not. The things people think they can negotiate, and then find they can't. In the relationships I know about I tend to feel for both parties. They did feel they were being sincere, but hit emotional walls. All that and a biological clock to boot.

eta:

For example, if kids caused a parent anxiety for their wellbeing than joy, that'd still work out.

But don't they? And doesn't the joy take the edge off?

I don't find Gilbert convincing. I think for some people children are a great source of happiness. For some people children are the only source of happiness. For others children detract happiness.

I guess trying to measure happiness and when it happens etc seems sort of impossible. I have moments where I am happier than I have ever been or even happier and more in love than I had ever imagined was possible (and in fact, on the in love part, I find it all rather dangerous that anyone could love this much). There are other moments when I am in more despair than I've ever been.

I think the big problem is that children are sort of like an orgasm. You don't really fathom what it's like to have one until you do. And people can keep trying to explain it, but it doesn't make any sense and may even seem unbelievable until it does happen to you.

had I gotten pregnant accidentally I'd have gone to term.

One of the things I'd thought through with was this. And absent my Like That person, I'd likely choose differently. It's weird. It kind of freaks me out that I'd only choose to be a parent because of someone else. But then, I don't really believe there is a someone else, so it makes it theoretically easy!