I'm just wondering when I'm going to stop being pissed they killed Ianto. That overshadows the angst of the rest of the ending for me.

You know...it wasn't the fact that Ianto died that perturbed me. I mean, I'm used to Joss and Minear...folk who unhesitatingly kill beloved characters.

But, see, Joss and Minear do it in service to the story. And they make it work, usually. I'm pissed Ianto died because Jack's plan was fucking stupid and Jack isn't wracked with guilt for the right reasons. He's all "I hurt the ones I love in service to a higher cause and I just don't know if I'm strong enough to keep doing it" where in Ianto's case he should be (in my opinion) "I killed the man I love because I was a giant fucking moron with the stupidest plan imaginable."

I mean, REALLY? "Give up or I will lead the human race in a battle against you!"

The only appropriate response the 456 could have given was: "And you are...?"

"I killed the man I love because I was a giant fucking moron with the stupidest plan imaginable."

Add also my grandkid, for the same reason.

I'm kidding myself if I think I won't watch any future Torchwood because I loved what they had to offer prior to CoE. If I can limit my memory of CoE to the big block of concrete that would work.

Add also my grandkid, for the same reason.

I separate the killing of the grandkid. I think Ianto's death was part of their hubris (Ianto was all up in it too, not just Jack--I think he fired the first shot at the tank, and surely that would have killed him too), but the grandson's death served a much larger purpose and saved much of the world.

I just dreamt I met John Barrowman (and was surprisingly wellbehaved) and tried to have a discussion with him about my unhappiness about the end of CoE without spoiling it for the people listening. And then I woke up.

Why WHY is Fringe going up against Supernatural?

AND CSI!!!! Hateful. Luckily, I am a greedy/lucky SOB who has two tivos so that I can record two things on the living room DVR and one on the bedroom DVR.

But, see, Joss and Minear do it in service to the story. And they make it work, usually. I'm pissed Ianto died because Jack's plan was fucking stupid

I dunno, I'm fairly sure that episodes by both Whedon & Minear have sometimes depended upon characters doing inexplicably stupid things.

I'm not saying it's fine, or that it shouldn't bother you. I just think that it's a rather common problem, especially when the story's got a strict time limit.

I dunno, I'm fairly sure that episodes by both Whedon & Minear have sometimes depended upon characters doing inexplicably stupid things.

Well, the larger point for me is that Jack has done things this stupid before and had them work (or at least work out eventually). Which is probably why Ianto was enthusiastically along for the ride.

I just dreamt I met John Barrowman (and was surprisingly wellbehaved)

Did you lick him? That counts as well behaved, right?

I'm pissed Ianto died because Jack's plan was fucking stupid and Jack isn't wracked with guilt for the right reasons.

Yeah, this. And it's the same inexplicably stupid thing that Jack always does. Which I suppose makes it in character for him and for the story. But I am angry at Ianto's death because there were a lot of other ways it could have gone narratively and been successful.

Also I feel that they kill Jack too much. It's losing its strength and it's cruel to the character. I don't think we need quite so much evidence of his immortality to contrast with everyone else's quite evident mortality.

Also I feel that they kill Jack too much. It's losing its strength and it's cruel to the character. I don't think we need quite so much evidence of his immortality to contrast with everyone else's quite evident mortality.

"We Keep Killing Jack"

I can't believe Supernatural and The Vampire Diaries are on the same network. But I think that's basically a disbelief that Supernatural is on the CW, I guess.

That was...addictively appalling. Can Ian Somerhalder act Or does he always get by on a twinkle of his louche brown eyes?

But it was quite bad. Humour--I miss it. Dopplegangers of lost loves--I do not miss it. Journal-keeping teenaged vampires? I wouldn't have missed it if I'd thought of it.

Now I have to wikipedia the book and read up on it.

I kind of liked it in a "I know this is horrible, but I'm somehow amused" way. Like any new show, I give it three eps.