The Carroll mirror could be a piece of alien tech that's a kind of AI game. (Or left over from a Marx brothers movie....)

Houdini's wallet calling up ghosts and Lucretia Borgia's jeweled comb letting her spirit possess and mind-control people didn't trip anyone's objections to the supernatural before this?

I think, what I like about "Torchwood," -- and not having seen COE yet -- is that, excepting that Jack has an ostensible superpower, they're not superheroes. They're normal people with the proper skill sets and motivations needed to do the job, but I can buy into the show's premise: that doing the job will seriously fuck you up. I actually like that Jack understands this, and doesn't condemn his people for being human.

I don't disagree. I like the show. But I think Jack's superpowers qualify him more to be a team member than a team leader.

I am not bothered by blurring the line between science and magic. Show started with an ancient bleeding rock controlling people (very "Do you like my mask?" now that I think about it)

Now that I've recovered from marathoning TW, my thoughts (I'm echoing other people, mostly, but the thoughts are all my own work so ner):

The entire 'mainstream' audience in the UK seems to have thought it was the best thing ever. I didn't think that, but I liked it a lot more than some people here clearly did. In particular, I didn't hate Jack. Given that this was all about sacrificing other people's children and refusing to take personal responsibility - especially the government scenes, with the prime minister and in the cabinet room - I can see why he thought he was doing the right thing. He was entirely wrong, as it wasn't his own child he was sacrificing. But I think he thought he couldn't do anything else. His flawed humanity in trying to make up for the past and only making things worse was tragic.

On the other hand, while I can sort of see why they killed off Ianto, for several plot reasons, I didn't like it. I *did* sob at the TV more than I possibly ever have for anything on the telly including BtVS. But I didn't like it, with hindsight anyway, and I don't think it was worth the plot stuff they used it for (mainly Jack's stuff).

Vonnie K., I agree that the cabinet room scenes were utterly chilling. (Not least because they strongly echo the way that the British government has been talking about its economically 'inactive' citizens in recent years.) The themes of corruption and the inability to accept social responsibility worked really, really well for me.

bonny fides, you said "456, from beginning to end, has been a total cock-up." Although I didn't think this while watching it, having since given it some thought, I'm with you. Earth basically surrendering, and agreeing to give up 10% of its children, without knowing what they'll be used for, and without even a basic investigation into who this race is and what they're actually capable of (what they *say* they're capable of not necessarily being true - as my Girl said, it was a protection racket)? And that was the tip of the iceburg. That said, I did enjoy the effect of never seeing the aliens. Imagination is always creepier than CGI.

le nubian, there was a brief discussion in my house over whether Jack might have had many more children - we assumed that would be the case, given his age (and his, um, activities). I wonder whether they cut out a reference to that from the script. It seems odd for 'Declassified' to bring up the concept out of nowhere.

In relation to the question of how the British do sci-fi, I can see where Anne W.'s friend was reminded of Blakes 7 etc, and maybe that's why it was generally liked over here (it'll be interesting to compare reactions generally when more people have seen it on BBCA). Although there's a fair amount of that in US sci-fi too - Battlestar's recent ending comes to mind, although not in exactly the same vein, as does much of Tim Minear and Joss Whedon's work.

I am watching the first episode of Torchwood.

I don't disagree. I like the show. But I think Jack's superpowers qualify him more to be a team member than a team leader.

'Course, the only reason he is a Team Leader is because everyone else died. He was clearly stuck in Team Member/Affiliate position for decades and decades and decades until that day when he came waltzing into the hub and found everyone was dead. He's been giving leadership the old college try, but - yeah. He doesn't rock at it, charisma and swashbuckling skills notwithstanding.

I thought that this was a very interesting commentary on CoE.

Fay, I think that is an interesting commentary. To those points, I would add that the plot had problems that could have been conquered with better writing and better continuity between character development in the TW series vs. this mini-series.

I would quibble with the part of the post Fay linked to that says Children of Earth was groundbreaking for mixing sci-fi with social commentary. Adi Tantimedh's piece at Bleeding Cool did a pretty good job of putting Torchwood in context. I saw several responses to the show that were along the lines of, "Hey, that was proper British sci-fi, and not just an imitation of American TV."

I would quibble with the part of the post Fay linked to that says Children of Earth was groundbreaking for mixing sci-fi with social commentary.

Fair enough. Which British TV show/s are you thinking of in particular?