Yeah, I'd been assuming all along that the Starbuck who came back was not the one who left.

Ellen, I'm reserving judgment on until I find out why. (Right now I'm holding out for "Saul and Ellen Tigh are the original Lords of Kobol" but I kind of doubt it will be that dramatic.)

Oh - now that I know Gaeta and Hoshi are both still alive, is there any reason I should see the last webisode? I was really starting to lose interest at about ep 8.

yeah, you should see ep 9 and 10. it isn't a huge time commitment.

I'd been assuming all along that the Starbuck who came back was not the one who left.

Did you have a non-Cylon explanation, or were you withholding judgment?

well, I thought Starbuck said this pretty directly when she was with Anders before the season break. Her ship was different, so I guess I figured she too was as well.

I can't think of a pleasing reason for both of them to have happened. Just one points cleanly to a fifth cylon. Two is too messy for me.

This was exactly my thought, which is what led to the notion that they are all Cyousins.

The idea of Saul and Ellen being the Lords of Kobol made me gaffaw, Jessica. Good one!

I think she was rebuilt by the ancient Cylons and sent forward in time back to the nebula. Does that make her a Cylon? Maybe. I don't know yet.

I also want to know how Ellen being "the fifth" has any real meaning anymore, given that we now know of potentially billions of Cylon models on ancient Earth. (Since the people we saw in the flower market flashback were just random extras, and not recongizable Cylons.)

Ooh, forgot about the Cavils.

Also, it's seeming that the final five are different and separate from the seven, and yet the seven (again, working with way dusty memories here) seemed to know of them as far as "there used to be twelve of us but we were made to forget five of us". I'm of course assuming that the seven were fairly recent creations.

Now, how come there were Cylons millenia ago I don't get.

They went back in time to kill John Connor. It is possible I am confused.

My sister watched the show with me last night for the first time. When she saw in the opening that Olmos was in the cast she said she always liked him. She wasn't disappointed. She did wonder if it was always so depressing. Well, you sure aren't going to watch it for the funny good times, but last night was up there on the pain meter.

I don't know where they are headed with the new revelations, but I am certainly going along for the ride.

Also, it's seeming that the final five are different and separate from the seven, and yet the seven (again, working with way dusty memories here) seemed to know of them as far as "there used to be twelve of us but we were made to forget five of us". I'm of course assuming that the seven were fairly recent creations.

No, that's occurred to me, too, and I'm certain it's significant.

It seems that, 4,000-odd years ago, on Kobol, there were humans and Cylons. The Cylons left for Earth.

2,000 odd years ago, Earth was populated by Cylons, who nuked themselves to death. The implication being that we, sitting here watching this on TV, are Cylons. Most of us, of course, think of ourselves as human. Except maybe Dick Cheney. (I only have a few days left to spend my Dick Cheney jokes.)

We don't know what happened afterward. At least five Cylons from this time were able to leave. Reincarnation hubs? Seems possible. We don't know where they've been all this time.

Then, 70 odd years ago, humanity created Cylons again, not knowing that "all of this has happened before." War breaks out, ending forty years ago when the Cylons leave. Again. We have no idea whether or not the new Cylons know anything about the old Cylons.

Sometime in all this, the five arrive from wherever they've been. We don't know exactly when this happened -- the earliest instance we have of a Cylon infiltration is when Adama met Tigh, about 30 years ago.

It seems likely that the five made contact with the "new" Cylons beforehand, though, although it's unclear whether this happened in person or not. After all, the Cylons knew there were 12 models, even if they didn't immediately know who the five were, and were forbidden to speak of them at all. And the five seem sincere in their being unaware of their nature until recently.

Four years ago (or whatever it is in show time) the Cylons return, able to look like humans. They nuke the 12 planets. Shortly thereafter, the fleet learn of the existence of Cylons that look like humans.

So the questions are, as I see them:

1.) Did the Five have something to do with the creation of the "skinjobs." Did they bring technology from Earth that made that leap possible?

2.) If Earth was populated by Cylons, what are those from the other 12 Colonies. It seems the question isn't "What is a Cylon," but rather, "What is a human?"

3.) We were told, way back when, in the opening credits, that the Cylons had a plan. Which Cylons?

4.) How does Starbuck figure into all of this? Was she resurrected? If so, is she a Cylon, or can humans be resurrected, too, perhaps if it's arranged in advance? And if that's the case, then the line between human and Cylon narrows even more.

5. What is the significance of Hera and the other Cylon offspring?

The mind spins.

Did the Five have something to do with the creation of the "skinjobs." Did they bring technology from Earth that made that leap possible?

This could explain things to my brain more than anything else so far, but then I wonder: who made the five forget they were 2000+ years old (and cylons)? And who made the 7 think they were part of 12?

How does Starbuck figure into all of this? Was she resurrected? If so, is she a Cylon, or can humans be resurrected, too, perhaps if it's arranged in advance?

I could buy that there is a tech on/near Cylon Earth that reincarnates "people", downloads them, clones them, whatev. I can even get behind this tech not distinguishing between machine (viper) and organic (human/cylon), but dogtags, wedding ring and clothes?

I sincerely hope that time travel or alternate dimension aren't involved, but right now it makes the most sense to me (in a Stargate universe sort of way.)