DW 4x13

Vonnie, I too wish that they had just straight up killed Donna rather than send her back to her pitiful existence, especially after Doctor v2 sees how and why she ticks.

and oh how joyous all the companions flying the tardis, the music, that whole sequence, I think that may have been the happiest moment of television ever.

but now I think I'm just terribly depressed. So much more to talk about, but I think I just want to curl up and cry into my pillow.

I do have this to say: holy hell, what a way to externalize the Doctor's self-flagellation and guilt over the Time War by having him condemn his second self for the genocide. I knew something was very wrong the second he came running out of the Tardis with a *gun* in his hand. And yet I want to smack the Doctor for his desire to save creatures who want to wipe out all of existence. And that's why I'm not a Time Lord. Lady. Whatevs.

Julie, SERIOUSLY. It was like the ultimate combination of OMG SO AWESOME and OMG SO SAD.

I think she's going to do much better this time round,

ita, I hope your right, and I think that there is some glimmer of hope for this, especially if the Doctor's command to have Donna's mum tell Donna that she loves her every once in a while/show it.

Oh! other thing: Torchwood is going to be fun with Mickey (het-est guy on the planet) and Martha filling out the team next year.

Oh yes indeed, Deb!

also, was I the only one who found some of DT's acting reminiscent of The Master? There was a little bit of John Simm I found in some moments. Just me?

Jules,

Yeah, that sequence with all the companions flying the TARDIS was extremely squeetastic. And the fantastic music! It's apparently all Murray Gold's work, who composes the incidental music on the show, and this particular piece is the full-orchestra, full-chorus version of the gorgeous music we heard at the end of "Planet of Ood".

ita, I'm not sure about the fan-service re. Rose's ending. They were going for bittersweet, and I think they've succeeded. Mind you, I've never liked Ten/Rose relationship in S2 very much (they struck me as too smug and kind of juvenile together, and I didn't care for the conventional romantic angle they were pushing with these two), but I'm much more intrigued by the notion of human!Ten/Rose, because of all the things that are sad and broken about that relationship. She ends up with someone who looks and acts exactly like the Doctor she loves, without being quite him. Because the Doctor she loved was the Doctor travelling the time and space in TARDIS. So what if he has the memories and the mannerisms? He's without that which defines him, and will always be less to her eyes because of that. And it's even sadder for him. To have Doctor's memories, the lifetime of his extraordinary experiences in his head, but stuck in one place and time -- it's a tragedy; a certain death, I think. Rose's love may be enough to compensate for that, but somehow, I can't imagine it being an entirely happy relationship. While it may have made the shippers squee, it's the undercurrent of pathos that predominates the scene. It was an unusual and interesting resolution, I thought. I might be (for the first time ever) interested in reading some Ten/Rose fic now.

Vonnie, regarding your response to ita, I found the whole Rose choosing/accepting the Ten that she got to be... odd, unsatisfactory, hurtful. That even though she kissed the human Ten, she still ran after the Time Lord Ten, and that's got to sting. And then, yeah, the human Ten having to be, well, human. Sure, she had joked about morgages and jobs on The Impossible Planet, but there is going to be an integral part missing from human Ten.

Still, as much as this return of Rose has lessened her in my eyes, I really wished that it had been human Ten that had grabbed Rose and kissed her, although I find it endlessly fascinating that Time Lord Ten refused to say "I love you". Like, was it because he wanted his human self to say and win Rose over, or did he really, as a true Time Lord, find it an unnecessary articulation? That it should be understood. I'm thinking the former. And I'm still liking the human Ten better, and that makes me sad that he's stuck with Rose, because this new Rose I do not like. Loved the old Rose, but the new one is like Chiana in the Peacekeeper Wars, and totally out of touch with the character.

So does this mean that David Tennant is the 10th AND 11th Doctor.

More on Rose, and her insistence that the Doctor shouldn't change bodies, and I find that incredibly shallow. If she loves him, she should love him in any form, right? I mean, I know that regeneration brings along some personality changes, but if she really loves him, she'd understand that and that would be part of what she loves about him. Grrr, don't want to be spending this much time ranting about Rose and validating the psychology behind how her character has been written.

serial DW 4x13

Also I *am* glad that Donna's specialness turned out to be of the timey-wimey variety, and not the mitichlorian variety. But, I have to rewatch, but did they ever address who was manipulating her into place so that she would be there in the right place at the right time?