Oh, Pacey! You blind idiot. Can't you see she doesn't love you?

Spike ,'Help'


Boxed Set, Vol. V: Just a Hint of Denial and a Dash of Retcon  

A topic for the discussion of Doctor Who, Arrow, and The Flash. Beware possible invasions of iZombie, Sleepy Hollow, or pretty much any other "genre" (read: sci fi, superhero, or fantasy) show that captures our fancy. Expect adult content and discussion of the Big Gay Sex.

Marvel superheroes are discussed over at the MCU thread.

Whitefont all unaired in the U.S. ep discussion, identifying it as such, and including the show and ep title in blackfont.

Blackfont is allowed after the show has aired on the east coast.

This is NOT a general TV discussion thread.


Strix - Jul 20, 2013 12:58:19 am PDT #22879 of 30001
A dress should be tight enough to show you're a woman but loose enough to flee from zombies. — Ginger

So Tatiana Maslany didn't get an Emmy nom. I'm surprisingly annoyed (if not very surprised).

WHAT? She is superlative!


§ ita § - Jul 20, 2013 6:25:52 am PDT #22880 of 30001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

after pretending to be loyal to him and infiltrating the pack for Gerard

But he so clearly wasn't loyal to Gerard I really didn't even consider this an issue. Derek had a focal role in the plan should have been told, ideally. However, he is also a moron, and I don't now how many plans would be improved by having him in on them. His turn at Miguel convinced me he is not convincing.

If turning someone is a personal intimate sort of act that it's violating to have forced upon you, then it's pretty awful to drop someone on his claws. Since Scott didn't leave him with a pack member or responsibilities or anything, but was doing it to kill/neutralise a raging madman (and in the process save my life), I'd be somewhere at the YOU COULDN'T FUCKING HAVE SAID SOMETHING, MATE??? stage of anger, and if anyone pointed out I wasn't reliable or trustworthy and was now maxing and relaxing with a guy that had tried to kill you I might have to follow up with storming out of the room rather than trying to argue my point.


Matt the Bruins fan - Jul 20, 2013 8:15:53 am PDT #22881 of 30001
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand

Derek does have pretty poor tactical judgement, aside from being fairly good at the actual hand-to-hand combat once engaged in an ill-advised confrontation. I know that in his shoes I'd have been a bit more proactive, and perhaps dealt with that warehouse situation by chucking heavy steel equipment at Gerard rather than concentrating on duking it out with the kanima. Or, failing that, since he was clearly still in control of his jaw muscles for talking, instead of resisting the bite I'd have clamped down to the bone and worried it ragged so Gerard would bleed out before he could turn. No MOUNTAAAAIIIINNNN AAAAAAASSSSSHHHHH! required.


-t - Jul 20, 2013 8:47:07 pm PDT #22882 of 30001
I am a woman of various inclinations and only some of the time are they to burn everything down in frustration

So, Zero Hour is totally low rent Davinci Code, and nothing that ridiculous should also be that boring, BUT making the bad guys' goal bringing about the end of the world by cloning Jesus (from blood retrieved from beetles that ate the True Cross, no less) is kind of brilliant.


§ ita § - Jul 20, 2013 8:55:54 pm PDT #22883 of 30001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

So I kind of read some of the Teen Wolf meta. Scott is an awful person, all the decisions he makes lead to awful, he's not paying his dues, AND JUMPING HIM AHEAD OF THE LINE IS AKING TO MANIFEST DESTINY since he's been chosen by a prophecy to lead werewolferdom based on nothing material or traditional.

I liked this bit:

he’s becoming an alpha not because of a prophecy (like where the fuck is this prophecy i want a fucking receipt) but because he inspires loyalty through kindness and empathy

he’s not actively refusing to learn, he is actively choosing to avoid his attacker. WHICH IS UNDERSTANDABLE SINCE DEREK BASICALLY RUIND HIS LIFE.

This is offensive because it is being told that by the way this kid is better suited to be a werewolf leader than anyone else, it happens once in a blue moon because it’s so trite. If Scott tried hard and did his best to be the best werewolf and save the world and learn werewolf history and found a ritual that would save everyone and the only cost was his becoming an alpha - something he blatantly doesn’t want - then there is a case to be made.

But simply giving him alphadom because he’s better - that is like saying your tribal chief/village leader/kingdom needs to be ruled by a complete stranger because they were chosen by god according to someone else that has nothing to do with you.

im going to address this specifically because w o w what bullshit

what offensive bullshit

maybe you are reading some extratextual material or have some behind the scenes information but the last time i checked werewolfism was not a culture. its not an ethnicity. its not a nation that scott is invading. scott didnt show up one day and say ‘lo ye uncivilized brutes allow me to show mine own way. look to me and you will be led to a straight path.’

which is what colonizers do.

scott was dragged into werewolf town kicking and screaming against his will. he refuses to kill people because he is a teenage boy. he is not shunning or perverting a culture or attempting to rewrite a mythos or refusing to engage in rituals. he is literally trying to pass school, go to college, and stay alive without committing murder.

he is better than derek, and the narrative thinks he’s better than derek and is rewarding him because he is empathetic, and kind, and really wonderful. he doesn’t want to kill people and when he looks for alternatives it is usually AN ALTERNATIVE TO MURDER.

like i get that tw fandom has a serious hard on for inferior tyler and they really are doing some mental acrobatics to elevate him or whatever

but at least read the fucking text right and understand what theories your applying

and i like idk i dont want to be a academic snob because thats a shitty thing to do but COLONIALISM MATTERS TO ME AS A PERSON FROM A POST COLONIZED COUNTRY and you are wrong about everything and you’re doing it wrong and you’re reading the text wrong and you have clearly never read edward said or fanon WHICH IS OKAY except that now you are shitting over a good century’s worth of hard academic work meant to liberate an actual colonized people so you can like

wet your white dude boner on this show

and im not really here for that

I have to admit--stories can totally put a POC in a position of coloniser/manifest destiny etc, but a) this is not it and b) please make sure your shit is WATERTIGHT with every aspect of meta and canon, because a bunch of people who take tossing that around a little more personally are going to go off on that shit.


Tom Scola - Jul 21, 2013 2:05:16 am PDT #22884 of 30001
Remember that the frontier of the Rebellion is everywhere. And even the smallest act of insurrection pushes our lines forward.

Arrow season 2 trailer (I double-checked the URL) [link]


Matt the Bruins fan - Jul 21, 2013 4:02:51 am PDT #22885 of 30001
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand

I do think the original complaintant touched on something that I didn't like, which is that Deaton made it sound like this True Alpha business is just the universe giving Scott a reward for being the nicest. In my headcannon the mechanism for that is that because he's caring and loyal and takes responsibility for the safety of others, Isaac, Erica, Boyd, and even Jackson respected him and (for the first three, anyway) have repeatedly deferred to his judgement - thus elevating him to alpha status despite already having a bumbling, snarly alpha of their own. I don't think the boost to alphadom should just happen on its own in a vacuum due to good character, but that good character should be the catalyst for other werewolves wanting him to be their leader.


Steph L. - Jul 21, 2013 6:04:43 am PDT #22886 of 30001
this mess was yours / now your mess is mine

Arrow season 2 trailer

ALL THE TOMMY FEELS.

I also totally forgot about Roy Harper and his red hoodie.

Apparently Felicity is making Ollie go the full Batman with the swanky cave.

And if that was Black Canary, but not Laurel (which I can't actually tell if it's her or not), then my unspoiled speculation is that it's Laurel's sister.


§ ita § - Jul 21, 2013 8:44:41 am PDT #22887 of 30001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Man, I was looking forward to some My Little Pony. Still...I didn't realise I was hoping Summer has an action role until now. Her Reaver dance in Serenity was so much better than most female characters (not played by Q or Hsu) get. Because she can.

But Matt, hasn't the show been hammering home the Scott-is-Galahad thing for over two seasons now? The idea that he's trying to be just so good about this and it plays havoc with the hierarchy rules--well, I've been waiting for it since season 1. You give that to Derek or Isaac or one of the twins and it looks random. But Scott's been quite markedly different from all the werewolves we've seen so far (Isaac is doing a good job too, but not in the leader/problem solver role).

So me, I'm perfectly okay with pack-of-one (because he's so different) or pack-of-humans (because he does fit that role) and general furry Buffy thing making him all kinds of exceptions.


Matt the Bruins fan - Jul 21, 2013 1:45:28 pm PDT #22888 of 30001
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand

There's been a fair amount of Scott-is-a-neglectful-friend and Scott-is-a-girl-obsessed-halfwit mixed in with the better qualities, so I don't think he's been presented as an unrealistic paragon of virtue worthy of note from on high, just as a goodhearted kid who benefits from comparison with all the emotionally damaged/violent other wolves.

I don't mind at all Scott becoming an alpha werewolf because the qualities that make him nice/likeable to the audience do the same to other werewolves and draw him to take their lead from him. But I don't like the idea of the him having some special destiny. He's done the networking to earn advancement, and I'd like the narrative to acknowledge that rather than treating him as someone who's innately better because of who he is rather than what he does.