Jayne ,'War Stories'
A topic for the discussion of Doctor Who, Arrow, and The Flash. Beware possible invasions of iZombie, Sleepy Hollow, or pretty much any other "genre" (read: sci fi, superhero, or fantasy) show that captures our fancy. Expect adult content and discussion of the Big Gay Sex.
Marvel superheroes are discussed over at the MCU thread.
Whitefont all unaired in the U.S. ep discussion, identifying it as such, and including the show and ep title in blackfont.
Blackfont is allowed after the show has aired on the east coast.
This is NOT a general TV discussion thread.
He could insist on going.
He was there. He left. That is his action. No one is taking away agency from him.
But you're talking about what she should be "let" do, and that's absolutely making it someone else's story. If it was about her father, his name would be in the title.
I could see Belle convincing her dad that he needed to stay and provide for his other daughters, rather than leaving all three of them fatherless and poor. My takeaway wasn't that Dad passed the buck, but that Belle was awesome.
the influence of the trope on other work of fiction as well as on the way real women perceive their relationships with certain men.
I think the issue is that the trope, to me, is "beauty is more than skin deep" and to you it's "you can love the bad out of him" or "you should love him because he's bad", neither of which I can tie back to this story. I'm sure there's some other that says it, but I'm not sure why this one's generalities are to blame when that's not the moral of the original to me--it seems to be something some adaptations introduced, but isn't inherent, since the TV show didn't need it.
But he is literally transformed because she loves him, so there's that subtext, that a good woman's love can change a man.
Now I want there to be a show based on The Frog Prince, where the curse is cured by the chick killing him.
He's transformed physically, but he's still the same dude. His personality and nature doesn't change - that transformation already happened when he was cursed. The physical transformation always struck me as shallow and too shiny, but helpfully avoided the bestiality part of their romantic relationship.
I'm also now thinking of poor Priestley from 10 Inch Hero.
What if it were translated to magical gender-swapping?
a good woman's love can change a man
Can restore a man, but that's most every fairy tale ever. Someone's changed into something (or wants to change) and then love, and then change. They're dead, they're sleeping, they're a servant, they're a mermaid, romance, changed into a form that can be happily ever after.
There you go.
If the point is that he's really the same guy all the time, what's important about the change? If he's gentle and nice to her the entire time, what is her love accomplishing? Sending us the message that we can make our men look better? Is this why we are supposed to pick our men's clothes?
Yeap. The lighting is so dark that I can't really make it out, but it looks like they mostly paste a scar across one of his perfect cheekbones and call it a day.
Well, apparently, when he gets upset, he gets ugly. But, when he's calm. He's pretty with a scar. SO. FLAWED.
I thought a point of BATB was that the man did change. He was a bit of a jerk before the curse and over time changed his ways.
Am I wrong?
He's equally kind and gentle to her, but before his restoration he can't be part of society - her love makes that possible. And, yeah, that's totally common, but I think that's part of Vonnie's point, it's a common theme and Beauty and the Beast is one example of a story that encompasses, among other themes, that one.