Giles! I accidentally killed Spike. That's okay, right?

Buffy ,'Never Leave Me'


Boxed Set, Vol. V: Just a Hint of Denial and a Dash of Retcon  

A topic for the discussion of Doctor Who, Arrow, and The Flash. Beware possible invasions of iZombie, Sleepy Hollow, or pretty much any other "genre" (read: sci fi, superhero, or fantasy) show that captures our fancy. Expect adult content and discussion of the Big Gay Sex.

Marvel superheroes are discussed over at the MCU thread.

Whitefont all unaired in the U.S. ep discussion, identifying it as such, and including the show and ep title in blackfont.

Blackfont is allowed after the show has aired on the east coast.

This is NOT a general TV discussion thread.


§ ita § - Mar 26, 2012 6:36:43 pm PDT #19808 of 30001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Olivia, and she really did live that life, and have those experiences, and the show has decided that they're less important than shmoopy kissy-face with Peter.

But it's not like she's only getting a relationship for it. She's getting a whole other life, one she lived.


Consuela - Mar 26, 2012 6:56:26 pm PDT #19809 of 30001
We are Buffistas. This isn't our first apocalypse. -- Pix

She's getting a whole other life, one she lived.

Is she, really? If nobody else in her life experienced it? And she doesn't know it's going to work: they don't know how or what is happening.

It's possily irrelevant that she's making the choice: the process may well be unstoppable, and maybe it will spread to Walter and onward, like ripples from a stone. But the way that this is structured, that she's choosing to give up a loving relationship with her foster mother, and a much more emotionally-extroverted psyche, in order to pursue a romantic relationship with someone who isn't even supposed to exist at all--it just strikes me as negating a lot of what made Olivia so compelling to begin with.

I cannot imagine the Olivia Dunham of S1 or S2 turning away from her sister or niece for the possibility of a romance.


aurelia - Mar 26, 2012 7:12:12 pm PDT #19810 of 30001
All sorrows can be borne if you put them into a story. Tell me a story.

The way Olivia's memories reverted I feel like it wasn't amber Olivia choosing to be blue Olivia. She just became (or is becoming) blue Olivia. I think the idea of choice really is kind of irrelevant because ultimately they are the same person.

she's choosing to give up a loving relationship with her foster mother

She did ask Nina to try to connect with her if she did forget.


-t - Mar 26, 2012 7:18:15 pm PDT #19811 of 30001
I am a woman of various inclinations and only some of the time are they to burn everything down in frustration

ultimately they are the same person

How do you mean?


aurelia - Mar 26, 2012 8:15:08 pm PDT #19812 of 30001
All sorrows can be borne if you put them into a story. Tell me a story.

They literally are the same person, just with different life experiences.


Polter-Cow - Mar 26, 2012 8:16:33 pm PDT #19813 of 30001
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!

But don't your life experiences make you who you are?

That is, of course, the question at hand.


aurelia - Mar 26, 2012 8:33:54 pm PDT #19814 of 30001
All sorrows can be borne if you put them into a story. Tell me a story.

Okay, physically they are the same person.

I love that the show does this to us but I may need another drink and my existential whale t-shirt before I can continue.


Theodosia - Mar 27, 2012 2:05:56 am PDT #19815 of 30001
'we all walk this earth feeling we are frauds. The trick is to be grateful and hope the caper doesn't end any time soon"

This may actually be the point of "Olivia Must Die" prophecy, now that I think on it.

But I think I sit over on Consuela's side of the argument.


§ ita § - Mar 27, 2012 4:39:04 am PDT #19816 of 30001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

maybe it will spread to Walter and onward

I think that's already started happening. The Observer certainly implied as much, even if John Noble hadn't been playing it this way already. The whole world is changing, it looks like. She's just changing first and fastest.


sj - Mar 27, 2012 5:23:29 am PDT #19817 of 30001
"There are few hours in life more agreeable than the hour dedicated to the ceremony known as afternoon tea."

I think that's already started happening. The Observer certainly implied as much, even if John Noble hadn't been playing it this way already. The whole world is changing, it looks like. She's just changing first and fastest.

I think John Noble has been playing it that way, at least a little. Walter has become more and more comfortable around Peter in recent episodes and started calling for him in the lab. It's certainly more subtle than what is happening with Olivia, but I think Walter and Peter's relationship is starting to feel more and more what we're used to.