You know, I just... I woke up, and I looked in the mirror, and I thought, hey, what's with all the sin? I need to change. I'm... I'm dirty. I'm, I'm bad with the... sex and the envy and that, that loud music us kids listen to nowadays.

Buffy ,'Lessons'


Boxed Set, Vol. V: Just a Hint of Denial and a Dash of Retcon  

A topic for the discussion of Doctor Who, Arrow, and The Flash. Beware possible invasions of iZombie, Sleepy Hollow, or pretty much any other "genre" (read: sci fi, superhero, or fantasy) show that captures our fancy. Expect adult content and discussion of the Big Gay Sex.

Marvel superheroes are discussed over at the MCU thread.

Whitefont all unaired in the U.S. ep discussion, identifying it as such, and including the show and ep title in blackfont.

Blackfont is allowed after the show has aired on the east coast.

This is NOT a general TV discussion thread.


Shir - Mar 21, 2011 1:02:43 am PDT #16277 of 30001
"And that's why God Almighty gave us fire insurance and the public defender".

If you don't live here, you won't understand the context

That I can understand. I'll be more humble in my critique (really, no irony). And yet, there are few things that still don't justify it, IMHO.

But this wasn't 'the show'. It was Comic Relief... which are basically parodies of themselves

Have you seen the one with Rowan Atkinson?

Yep.

I didn't see a parody of The Doctor there, as it was with Atkinson. I saw a parody of Amy, mostly, and Amy's skirt, and some parody of Rory. But anyway, when I wrote "The Show", I meant DW franchise in general. Comic Relief included. The fact that it's a parody doesn't make it less sexist, and the fact that almost all of this parody was based on Amy's skirt jokes doesn't make it OK. It would have been OK if we lived in a better, more just and feminist world. I know some of the DW fans answer to this, but just take a look on the comments showing why people loved this sketch, and you might see my point. People don't laugh at the parody, because most of them can't see the parody. For them, it's real (and I'd take a chance that most of the people who are watching it on YouTube aren't from the UK, where they could have watched it on TV).

Which is kind of what I mean by "the show's responsibility". It's the show's (and Comic Relief's) responsibility to remember we are not in this world just yet. Because many will get the joke wrong.

I also don't see your problem with the idolisation of the Doctor. That's the entire point of the series

Sorry, was the entire point of Buffy the idolisation of Buffy? And yes, I know that the Doctor isn't human. But every characteristic of him, bad or good, is shown is such banal "OMG, he's teh awesome!!!1" way. Also fits to this sketch/parody.

Trust me, I hate being pushed to this radical position. I fully agree that sexuality shouldn't necessarily mean objectification (and God knows I fully embrace sexy dresses), but the thing is that its based on the presumption that you, as a viewer, need to know and understand a thing or two about feminism to get to this point and to see the parody. Because it comes with a responsibility on how not to objectify while sexualizing objects/subjects. Because at this episode, the role of Amy's skirt was as big as Amy's, if not bigger.

And you know what? Let's say it isn't sexist. It's still very lame (given it's Moffat), even if everyone get the joke.

But I wouldn't go on a battle on this issue. There are far more burning issues in feminism and popular culture to address. But this sketch is using too much goodwill to justify its existence. And mostly because it's Moffat, I'd expect more. Amy was an amazing companion. River Song? Kick ass character. Comic Relief? Jokes on Amy's skirt. Do you see my problem with it?

Edited for petty things such as grammar and clarity. Petty, I know.


WindSparrow - Mar 21, 2011 2:49:53 am PDT #16278 of 30001
Love is stronger than death and harder than sorrow. Those who practice it are fierce like the light of stars traveling eons to pierce the night.

ION, I just woke up from a dream in which I was watching Earth 2 on television. It was some kind of revival/re-editing of the original. The same actors in the roles, same story line, but somehow the angles of the camera work were different. It was shot as though one of the characters was holding the camera. And the Grendlers looked different.


quester - Mar 21, 2011 7:49:48 am PDT #16279 of 30001
Danger is my middle name, only I spell it R. u. t. h. - Tina Belcher.

Cool, WindSparrow! That beats my zombie kittens and babies dream to heck!


beekaytee - Mar 21, 2011 8:05:09 am PDT #16280 of 30001
Compassionately intolerant

I miss Earth 2! I want to see Andi's cut.


WindSparrow - Mar 21, 2011 8:11:11 am PDT #16281 of 30001
Love is stronger than death and harder than sorrow. Those who practice it are fierce like the light of stars traveling eons to pierce the night.

I want to see Andi's cut.

I think in the World Without Shrimp, where Firefly gets at least ten full seasons, Earth 2 got more seasons than Seaquest DSV.


beekaytee - Mar 21, 2011 8:41:18 am PDT #16282 of 30001
Compassionately intolerant

That's the world I signed up for! Except, I like shrimp.


sj - Mar 21, 2011 8:50:02 am PDT #16283 of 30001
"There are few hours in life more agreeable than the hour dedicated to the ceremony known as afternoon tea."

I love shrimp, but I would definitely give it up for more Firefly.


quester - Mar 21, 2011 9:55:48 am PDT #16284 of 30001
Danger is my middle name, only I spell it R. u. t. h. - Tina Belcher.

Screw shrimp, I want more good SciFi. Like Defying Gravity getting at least 2 seasons so we finally learn what the hell Beta was?


le nubian - Mar 21, 2011 10:15:55 am PDT #16285 of 30001
"And to be clear, I am the hell. And the high water."

quester, I hate having to disagree with you but DG was not good scifi.

oh, and the creator won't answer questions regarding where the show was going to go if it had continued.


Matt the Bruins fan - Mar 21, 2011 10:22:14 am PDT #16286 of 30001
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand

Petulance, or Lost-esque absence of an actual long term plan?