Flames wouldn't be eternal if they actually consumed anything.

Lilah ,'Not Fade Away'


Boxed Set, Vol. V: Just a Hint of Denial and a Dash of Retcon  

A topic for the discussion of Doctor Who, Arrow, and The Flash. Beware possible invasions of iZombie, Sleepy Hollow, or pretty much any other "genre" (read: sci fi, superhero, or fantasy) show that captures our fancy. Expect adult content and discussion of the Big Gay Sex.

Marvel superheroes are discussed over at the MCU thread.

Whitefont all unaired in the U.S. ep discussion, identifying it as such, and including the show and ep title in blackfont.

Blackfont is allowed after the show has aired on the east coast.

This is NOT a general TV discussion thread.


Polter-Cow - Jun 06, 2010 6:08:36 am PDT #13195 of 30001
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!

bonny, I absolutely agree that some of the best bits of Eleven are in throwaway lines. It's like his mind is always whirring and he can't disconnect it from its mouth. It's hilarious.


beekaytee - Jun 06, 2010 6:21:38 am PDT #13196 of 30001
Compassionately intolerant

Right, P-C. It's so endearing and humble-seeming.

With 10 and even 9, to a lesser extent, the notion that the Universe knows him and is enthralled by/cowed by his awesomeness, was so certain. Now, much less so. In fact, when he responded the the question about whether he is afraid of monsters with, "No! They are afraid of me." I knew that was what he was supposed to say, but I didn't quite believe that he believed it. Which makes his awesomeness so much more...well...awesome. Superheroes don't surprise you when they get it right. But this Doctor does. It sort of reminded me of a line from Toy Story, when Rex says, "I'm going for fierce here, but I'm just not feeling it!"

Which brings me to something that worries me, that has been repeated so many times recently, it is leading me to a 'do not want' place.

In this episode, alone, 11 says, "I'm getting old," twice. 10 said that a lot too, but in a more ironical way. Now, it makes me nervous that the PTB are planning for the end of the series. While I don't want to seem paranoid, even MASH and St. Elsewhere came to an end.


smonster - Jun 06, 2010 7:19:26 am PDT #13197 of 30001
We won’t stop until everyone is gay.

Who US:

Loved that episode. Need to go back and rewatch. Was the Dream Lord really his dark side? At first I thought he meant it was the Master, and it still could be. If not, if it really is the Doctor himself, than they are taking this show darker than ever. I wonder how kids take this show, if all that stuff goes over their heads.


Frankenbuddha - Jun 06, 2010 7:58:52 am PDT #13198 of 30001
"We are the Goon Squad and we're coming to town...Beep! Beep!" - David Bowie, "Fashion"

Was the Dream Lord really his dark side?

It was pretty explicitly stated that while the phlebotenum creatures stuck in the Tardis caused the shared dreaming, it was the Doctor who was the Dream Master. As someone said up thread in whitefont about this episode during the UK airing re "Nobody in the Universe hates me as much as you do."

paging Dr. Freud.


Seska (the Watcher-in-Training) - Jun 06, 2010 8:16:34 am PDT #13199 of 30001
"We're all stories, in the end. Just make it a good one, eh?"

It was pretty explicitly stated that while the phlebotenum creatures stuck in the Tardis caused the shared dreaming, it was the Doctor who was the Dream Master.

Someone upthread mentioned the Valeyard. I've not actually seen those episodes (I need to find them), so I can't really comment - but were we meant to think there was a link? Is this a theme they're laying down to come back to in later seasons, maybe?


sj - Jun 06, 2010 8:37:24 am PDT #13200 of 30001
"There are few hours in life more agreeable than the hour dedicated to the ceremony known as afternoon tea."

"Nobody in the Universe hates me as much as you do."

When he said this I thought he was talking about the Master, but later when he stated it was his own dark side, I thought it was very telling.


beekaytee - Jun 06, 2010 9:58:03 am PDT #13201 of 30001
Compassionately intolerant

It must be the psychologist in me, but I knew instantly who he was talking about and it sent a chill up my spine. There sure ain't no loathing like self loathing.


Laga - Jun 06, 2010 10:19:51 am PDT #13202 of 30001
You should know I'm a big deal in the Resistance.

At the end, when The Doctor caught his reflecion in a shiny part of the TARDIS, for a moment he saw the dream master.

I was afraid at first that he would turn out to be The Master, but then he teleported in a way I was prety sure Time Lords can't.


Vortex - Jun 06, 2010 11:18:08 am PDT #13203 of 30001
"Cry havoc and let slip the boobs of war!" -- Miracleman

When he said "I know who you are", I immediately thought The Master!!!


Typo Boy - Jun 06, 2010 11:27:48 am PDT #13204 of 30001
Calli: My people have a saying. A man who trusts can never be betrayed, only mistaken.Avon: Life expectancy among your people must be extremely short.

I caught that it was some aspect of the Doctor right away too. But I do wonder if they are planning to go to a Valeyard place someday too. But do the show runners even think that long term in planning their plots?