Take jobs as they come -- and we'll never be under the heel of nobody ever again. No matter how long the arm of the Alliance might get, we'll just get ourselves a little further.

Mal ,'Out Of Gas'


Boxed Set, Vol. V: Just a Hint of Denial and a Dash of Retcon  

A topic for the discussion of Doctor Who, Arrow, and The Flash. Beware possible invasions of iZombie, Sleepy Hollow, or pretty much any other "genre" (read: sci fi, superhero, or fantasy) show that captures our fancy. Expect adult content and discussion of the Big Gay Sex.

Marvel superheroes are discussed over at the MCU thread.

Whitefont all unaired in the U.S. ep discussion, identifying it as such, and including the show and ep title in blackfont.

Blackfont is allowed after the show has aired on the east coast.

This is NOT a general TV discussion thread.


victor infante - May 15, 2010 6:43:16 pm PDT #12968 of 30001
To understand what happened at the diner, we shall use Mr. Papaya! This is upsetting because he's the friendliest of fruits.

"Doctor Who," American Speed: So many places to go with this one. Moffat's playing an odd game, putting cards on the table early and trusting that he viewer will at least recognize that cards have been put on the table, and indeed, have been on the table all along, but really, there's still not enough information to figure out exactly what's going on. Because "we keep meeting each other out of order."

Prisoner Zero expected that the Doctor should know what the crack is. The Angels wanted the crack's energy, but didn't know they couldn't handle it, and it's unclear whether they were arranging things for it to show up, or just pleasantly surprised. The latter seems unlikely. Both Prisoner Zero and River Song mentioned the Pandorica opening. River Song killed someone who is, if not the Doctor himself, someone Doctorish.

And then there's Amy ... who, as my wife points out, was wearing a red hoodie. But let's leave her aside for a moment, and look at the angels.

The Angels are acting differently from the first time we (and the Doctor) met them. At no point do they drain anyone's potential and send them back in time, and it's never adequately explained why they don't. Which begs the question ... can they? Is that an ability they've gained yet? Or is that something that happens after they go through the crack? Were they erased, or just changed? And why were the two Time Lords in "The End of Time" so clearly positioned to reference them (up to and including a direct reference to them by Rassilon?

There were points where there appeared to be continuity errors between the Angels' two appearances, but now I'm no longer sure. I think we're meeting them out of order. I'm beginning to suspect the angels from "Blink" are from further along in the time stream, that they've fallen through time, like the Daleks and the Cybermen before them. And I'm beginning to suspect a connection between the Angels and the Time Lords, but that's a path I'm hesitant to purse, without more evidence.

But are we encountering the crack out of order? I'm beginning to think so: Prisoner Zero knew what it was, and whatever happens at the Pandorica is obviously significant. Does the Doctor somehow cause the crack? Does River Song kill him? Does the Doctor try to rewrite time? (Because, as we know, that likely leads to bad things. Bad things like two pieces of space and time touching that never should. Bad things like people not remembering Daleks or giant Cyberman robots rampaging in London. Except for the time travelers, naturally. So ... go easy out, Sarah Jane Smith and Jack Harkness!)

I've been enjoying this season, but I'll admit: Up until now, it's only been almost The Doctor. Now, with its establishing-pieces out of the way and its forcing us to go back and look at things we've taken for granted before, now I feel very engaged.

ETA: Wikipedia tells us "The Time Lord President compares two dissident Time Lords to the Weeping Angels as he shames them. In 'Blink', the Doctor described the Weeping Angels as being 'as old as the universe, or very nearly, but no one really knows where they come from.'" Oh, dear. I'm gaining suspicions ...


Barb - May 15, 2010 8:09:35 pm PDT #12969 of 30001
“Not dead yet!”

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in last week's episode, didn't The Doctor say that the three angels they encountered in "Blink" were rogues who were somewhat weak? I thought the implication was that that was why they weren't so vicious as they were this go-round, however, thinking back to "Blink," Ten made reference to their methods of assassination as benevolent, so he had some familiarity with them-- at least, that particular iteration.

And you know, Victor, I was perfectly happy being annoyed with Moffat for messing with the best villain of the last few years, but now you've got me thinking... ARGH. Brain hurty!


quester - May 15, 2010 8:14:24 pm PDT #12970 of 30001
Danger is my middle name, only I spell it R. u. t. h. - Tina Belcher.

The Doctor called the Blink Angels scavengers, barely hanging on.


Polter-Cow - May 15, 2010 8:21:58 pm PDT #12971 of 30001
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!

DW, UK speed: I really liked the episode. And I love Eleven SO MUCH. "Bench. What will they think of next?" He's just so entirely random and oddball but totally committed all the same. And I love Amy too: "If we're gonna die, let's die looking like a Peruvian folk band." I wonder whether the fact that Eleven sees the Dream Lord in his reflection is symbolic or literal.


Fiona - May 15, 2010 9:48:35 pm PDT #12972 of 30001

Who UK: it was surprisingly downbeat, but I enjoyed it nonetheless. I'm probably going to have to rewatch the whole thing in light of the information at the end. It makes perfect sense, though. And any logical inconsistencies can be explained away easily this week because it was all a dream anyway !

Agree that the casting was superb. I almost hope Toby Jones comes back. And I'm loving Matt Smith more and more. That little smile he did just before the credits, just after he said, "This is going to be a tricky one"? Perfect .

I don't like it when Who meets my own anxieties, however. I'm holding lectures for three days from tomorrow and this morning I had at least three dreams where I was late for them and spent the whole time rushing about not sure whether I was dreaming or not, then making myself wake up (in the dream) and the whole thing started again. I had to wait until I was really awake to find that it was Sunday and I was OK. Ooof .

Edit: and no crack stuff at all this week, which was actually quite refreshing.


Anne W. - May 16, 2010 4:17:34 am PDT #12973 of 30001
The lost sheep grow teeth, forsake their lambs, and lie with the lions.

Who UK: I loved it. One of my favorite moments was when Amy freaked out the Doctor by pretending to go into labor--just to make a point. I am also starting to like Rory a whole lot. I love that after prisoner Zero, he started reading up on the latest science and therefore knew immediately what was going on with the interior of the TARDIS.

As for the Dream Lord, upon the reveal of who (heh) he was, did anyone else who's somewhat familiar with the old series think 'Valeyard'?


Seska (the Watcher-in-Training) - May 16, 2010 9:16:50 am PDT #12974 of 30001
"We're all stories, in the end. Just make it a good one, eh?"

UK Who: I completely loved it, in a 'Simon Nye* is my new hero' way, up until about half way through - when it got a bit silly. Wasn't in the least bit interested in the elderly people with eyeballs in their mouths. (And I flinched every time they hit an old person. I know, they were aliens, but I couldn't watch!) Basically, a good concept, not as well executed as it could have been.

But there were some great moments, especially on the part of Matt Smith, who seems to be getting better every week. I adore the nervously manic side of this Doctor. His little apology about landing in their flowers was so cute. And Rory wasn't as bad as last week. I liked him better once we'd put some character to him, via his dream of being a quiet, settled village doctor with a wife who bakes cakes. Which marks him out as being, in fact, a very different character from Mickey. So I'm willing to take back my complaint there, if he continues to develop.

*Talking of whom, he was always a good comedy writer, but wasn't this his first Doctor Who episode? I don't remember seeing his name in the credits before.


sj - May 16, 2010 3:59:37 pm PDT #12975 of 30001
"There are few hours in life more agreeable than the hour dedicated to the ceremony known as afternoon tea."

Flashforward: "He told my mother he would take care of me. He didn't say it would be good care. It wasn't."


Dana - May 16, 2010 5:35:54 pm PDT #12976 of 30001
I haven't trusted science since I saw the film "Flubber."

I am bummed about Flashforward. I'm much more interested in knowing what happens next with it, rather than V.


le nubian - May 16, 2010 6:07:34 pm PDT #12977 of 30001
"And to be clear, I am the hell. And the high water."

I agree Dana.