Thanks for sharing that Bonny. That's such a useful perspective. It's clear that you've dealt with your issues around your history and the nature of your work you've had to very consciously confront them. But it is still brave to broach that kind of thing in a public forum and I always admire the willingness to bring a personal story like that into such a loaded issue.

Yes. This. Thank you.

I've thought about making a Gimme More one with just the intro ("It's Britney, bitch!"), just cause it makes me laugh.

I laugh every time my friend L calls. I sometimes answer with "It's Stephanie, bitch!" Which makes her laugh.

Oh Christ, Nora! Not another. Sorry to hear that.

Bless you for that Hec.

But while I appreciate the appreciation...goodness knows I take pride in my emotional courage...what I wish is that it didn't TAKE so much courage in our culture to simply speak this truth.

I, and none like me, should ever have felt ashamed to talk about it. Or to grieve publicly so as to move on. NOT doing so is what contributes to the problem.

I will tell you the defining moment in my life. Well, frankly there have been many defining moments and this particular one was facilitated by my wonderful DEXH who taught me what it meant to be loved for something other than what a man could do to your body. (It's directly because of him I have a healthy sex life...that man deserves angel wings.)

After years of heeding my father's daily admonitions of: 'talk and I'll kill you and besides no one will believe you (which tragically turned out to be true too many times) I went to a therapist who recommended an adult survivors of abuse group.

It was horrible, but I went. Long story shorter, during the third session, an older, bitter, angry woman I felt really sorry for was speaking. I thought to myself, wow, we really need to help her. She's new at this and is so overcome by her pain she can't even live.' As I'm thinking this, I tune back into what she's saying... "I've been coming to this group for ten years and I..."

I'd love to tell you the rest of what she said, but I had fallen hysterically deaf. No lie. I couldn't hear a thing. I reached under my chair, picked up my stuff and walked out, never to return. At 20 something, I declared that that would NEVER be me.

Support groups are a wonderful thing...especially when you are getting started on healing. But what, too often they can do is support you in staying where you are. I can't support that...pun entirely intended.

When the 'undamaged' people (at least in THAT particular realm of damage) can comfortably hear what goes on...that we'd rather not have going on...less of it will go on!

Which is another reason why this community rocks. IJS.

eta: in retrospect, I feel a need to clarify that what I object to is the ghetto-ization of support. We, as a culture, don't want to hear about it because it's too creepy or painful or whatever. While I'd never press the details of my experience on anyone...I respect other's limits as I'd have mine respected...I just wish we didn't LET the truth hurt us.

Also echoing Hec.

This topic actually came up, kinda, at my church on Sunday. We're doing a sermon series on the Gospel of Mark, and the text was one where Jesus offends religious people by hanging out with sinners and outcasts, and the pastor was reminding us that we need to look at the story from the perspective of the religious people and not just assume that we're on Jesus' side. He was listing outcast groups, some of which our church already works with, and then said something like, "And currently the most absolute outcasts in our culture are registered sex offenders. Maybe we as a church need to consider what the message of Jesus would be to them."

I have to admit my gut reaction was, "OK, Jeff, theologically I see your point, but I have a kid in this church."

He then made a crack about how in Seattle maybe all you'd have to do to reach out to the outcast would be to invite a Republican to dinner. The relieved laughter echoed around the sanctuary.

bonny, thank you for your insight and story.

I have a question (not just for bonny, but Bitches in whole) - is there a legal difference between a pedophile and a sex offender? Are they treated differently by the courts? Are there different sentencing guidelines? Are the terms along the lines of "All pedophiles are sex offenders, but not all sex offenders are pedophiles"? Is it differentiated by age?

I ask because as Ginger pointed out if a 17 year old has sex with a 14 year old and it was consensual, but the parents of the younger get upset and press charges, the 17 year old is saddled with a sex offender record and possibly labeled pedophile for life. I was a 17 year old who had sex with a 14 year old that was very consensual. I can't imagine if I had to try to get through life with that label because of a poor choice in a sexual partner at 17.

omnis - is it a large apartment complex that all of these convicted sex offenders are living in or is it a smaller apartment house, maybe a half-way house?

My personal experince with sex offenders is a very good friend of our family was convicted of a sexual offense his victim being his step-daughter. The problem being, the step-daughter and her mother later recanted the story, admitted to it being a lie, but the mother didn't want to put her daughter through more trauma and another court trial. And this man now has to spend the rest of his life having every moment, every step, every decision watched.

The system is far from perfect. And it seems as though so often, there is more harm done by the way the system is fucked up when it comes to the jailing and treatment of pedophiles and other sex offenders.

(I'm not trying to be pokey pokey or start an argument and I hope it doesn't come off that way. It's an interesting discussion.)

And an also - the titles of the statutes are all fucked up. Like in Michigan, someone on the sexoffender list can have the statute number (750.520c), the name (Criminal sexual conduct in the second degree) and then a qualifier such as (Person under 13). But if you look at the language, it actually qualifies that even further as "Person under 13" being defined as several different things one of which is "older than 13 but younger than 16." Since when is 15 < 13??

I have a question (not just for bonny, but Bitches in whole) - is there a legal difference between a pedophile and a sex offender? Are they treated differently by the courts? Are there different sentencing guidelines? Are the terms along the lines of "All pedophiles are sex offenders, but not all sex offenders are pedophiles"? Is it differentiated by age?

Yes. Pedophile refers to crimes involving children. A sex offender designation includes acts performed by adults.

Are the terms along the lines of "All pedophiles are sex offenders, but not all sex offenders are pedophiles"? Is it differentiated by age?

yes. and of course, particular states may have specific definitions.

And it seems as though so often, there is more harm done by the way the system is fucked up when it comes to the jailing and treatment of pedophiles and other sex offenders.

I think this a ultimately the case. Much like every knee-jerk reaction based on the show of doing something rather than accomplishing any actual good.

As for the legal distinction, I don't know.

Your example reminds me of the skewed drug law system. Carry a joint? Go to jail. Lead a drug cartel? Plead out.

I know that is a simplistic response but it is true that our definition of sexual offense if as warped as our practices of repression...and rug sweeping.

Are all 17 year olds who have sex with minors just experimenting. Well, no. My father began his criminal career when he was a minor himself, so it can't be assumed that all age-span sex is harmless. And yet, making ALL age-span sex criminal feeds the evil and can send otherwise normal people into environments where they DO end up being warped.

Your right, bonny, it shouldn't be hard to talk about. and being to not let it make your life bitter , impt. But I think you are right , we need to do more to prevent these people from being formed.