Spike: We got a history, him and me. Fred: What? Spike: It was a long time ago. He was a young Watcher, fresh out of the academy when we crossed paths. It was a, what-you-call battle of wills and blood was spilled. Vendettas were sworn. It was a whole-- Fred: My God you're so full of crap. Spike: Yeah. Okay.

'Unleashed'


Spike's Bitches 38: Well, This Is Just...Neat.  

[NAFDA] Spike-centric discussion. Lusty, lewd (only occasionally crude), risqué (and frisqué), bawdy (Oh, lawdy!), flirty ('cuz we're purty), raunchy talk inside. Caveat lector.


Susan W. - Dec 19, 2007 12:41:12 pm PST #9141 of 10002
Good Trouble and Righteous Fights

The Silver Chair is my favorite of the series now, though when I first read it as a child it was my second-to-least favorite of the lot. The Magician's Nephew has always been my least favorite, and I hate that they've changed the series packaging so that TMN rather than TLTWATW is the first book. It's just not anything like as good an introduction to the series, IMHO.

Anyway. When I was a kid I didn't much like TSC because so much of it seemed dark and dreary. Now that's what resonates with me--the idea of living out a commitment, and a faith, when life seems dark and dreary, and nothing is what you expected it to be.

Which makes it sound like I find adulthood depressing, which isn't true at all. I'm actually happier than I ever was as a child, but I've been through my share of horrid situations and dark nights of the soul to get to where I am now.


Polter-Cow - Dec 19, 2007 12:45:59 pm PST #9142 of 10002
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!

The Magician's Nephew has always been my least favorite, and I hate that they've changed the series packaging so that TMN rather than TLTWATW is the first book. It's just not anything like as good an introduction to the series, IMHO.

I think that was one of my very favorites, actually. I have only faint memories of the series at this point, but that was the one where there were all these pools and rings that would take you to different worlds, right? That was cool.

I was completely oblivious to the Christian thing when I read the books. I've wanted to read them again to get a better sense of them.


Trudy Booth - Dec 19, 2007 12:46:24 pm PST #9143 of 10002
Greece's financial crisis threatens to take down all of Western civilization - a civilization they themselves founded. A rather tragic irony - which is something they also invented. - Jon Stewart

I was rolling my eyes at the end of Voyage of the Dawn Treader where Aslan said something like, "Of course I exist in your world. It was just better for you to meet me here first, where you could get to know me in this form, before you got older and went back to your world and got to know me there." I expect subtext to be slightly more sub than than that

I don't think he intends it as sub, does he? There is a quote somewhere where he basically says, "this isn't a metaphor, its an alternate reality".

And MUCH easier to get if a big lion is breathing all over you and filling you with strength and peace and the like.


Emily - Dec 19, 2007 12:46:56 pm PST #9144 of 10002
"In the equation E = mc⬧, c⬧ is a pretty big honking number." - Scola

Anyone remember the link to the lavender jam recipe? I swear I'll bookmark it this time!


Hil R. - Dec 19, 2007 12:52:15 pm PST #9145 of 10002
Sometimes I think I might just move up to Vermont, open a bookstore or a vegan restaurant. Adam Schlesinger, z''l

I enjoyed The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe as a kid without getting any of the Christian stuff from it. (It wasn't one of my favorites, though -- the kids don't do anything! Stuff just happens to them.) I only started reading the others in the past year or two. (I got a paperback set of the whole series for my birthday from one of my friends when I was about 10 or so. It had TLTWATW as the first one, and The Magician's Nephew somewhere around the fourth. But now I can't find all of them, so I'm buying a few of the missing ones, and trying to figure out the right order is confusing.)


Polter-Cow - Dec 19, 2007 12:52:37 pm PST #9146 of 10002
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!

There is a quote somewhere where he basically says, "this isn't a metaphor, its an alternate reality".

Wikipedia to the rescue:

"What might Christ become like, if there really were a world like Narnia and He chose to be incarnate and die and rise again in that world as He actually has done in ours?' This is not allegory at all."


Trudy Booth - Dec 19, 2007 12:54:17 pm PST #9147 of 10002
Greece's financial crisis threatens to take down all of Western civilization - a civilization they themselves founded. A rather tragic irony - which is something they also invented. - Jon Stewart

Wikipedia from me too:

Lewis, an expert on the subject of allegory, maintained that the books were not allegory, and preferred to call the Christian aspects of them "suppositional". This is similar to what we would now call fictional parallel universes. As Lewis wrote in a letter to a Mrs Hook in December of 1958:

“If Aslan represented the immaterial Deity in the same way in which Giant Despair [a character in The Pilgrim's Progress] represents despair, he would be an allegorical figure. In reality, however, he is an invention giving an imaginary answer to the question, ‘What might Christ become like if there really were a world like Narnia, and He chose to be incarnate and die and rise again in that world as He actually has done in ours?’ This is not allegory at all” (Martindale & Root 1990).


Hil R. - Dec 19, 2007 12:54:20 pm PST #9148 of 10002
Sometimes I think I might just move up to Vermont, open a bookstore or a vegan restaurant. Adam Schlesinger, z''l

I just want to say, I'm really sorry if what I said last night offended or insulted anyone. That totally wasn't my intention.


Trudy Booth - Dec 19, 2007 12:55:03 pm PST #9149 of 10002
Greece's financial crisis threatens to take down all of Western civilization - a civilization they themselves founded. A rather tragic irony - which is something they also invented. - Jon Stewart

I dunno, Hil, you're sort of an instigating bitch and we all know that by now.


Fay - Dec 19, 2007 1:06:12 pm PST #9150 of 10002
"Fuck Western ideologically-motivated gender identification!" Sulu gasped, and came.

I hate that they've changed the series packaging so that TMN rather than TLTWATW is the first book. It's just not anything like as good an introduction to the series, IMHO.

Huh. Which number in the series was it for you when you were wee? 'Cause it was Book 1 in the editions I was reading as a kid, I'm pretty sure (ah, Narnia! My first ever fandom, back before I knew what fandom was).

Voyage of the Dawn Treader! God, I remember my Mum walking into a room and finding me sobbing my heart out, just weeping and weeping, heartbroken, and she was all "OMG! What what what?" And I was all "....heroic mouse!....self-sacrifice!....Reepicheep!" And when she eventually grasped that her 7 year old was in this state over the fate of a fictional mouse... well, my Mum has never really grokked that side of my personality.

vw, I loved The Golden Compass. Loved loved loved. And I didn't find it antithetical to theism either, actually. The direction he takes the subsequent books is more agressively atheist, but at least initially I thought that he was going for agnosticism. YMMV. (As to not letting one's kids read them lest they be OMG corrupted by atheism - I confess, this makes me want to shake people until their teeth rattle. Not least because (a) I adored the Narnia books as a child and knew them inside out and back to front - and, look, Ma, still not Christian; and (b) after reading His Dark Materials I realised that, yes, I was more of an agnostic than an atheist. I found the final book spiritually barren, and had not been expecting it to be.)

On a slightly related note, I'm re-reading (well, Audiobooking) Ender's Game and its sequels at the moment, and I'm finding all the religious stuff absolutely fascinating.