I do think it's important to teach kids (not just girls) that what they are seeing on TV is designed the way it is to get them to believe certain things -- whether it's about thinness or anything else.

Oy. Next couple of days are going to be tough.

Geez, seriously.

Far more disturbing to me is the Nolita campaign that uses an anorexic model posing in the nude to what?

I read an article about that campaign that says the woman is not a model, but is a 27-year-old who has had anorexia for 14 years, and appeared on the billboard to "demonstrate how dangerous the disease is." t edit I should note that I have NO idea if that's true or not; it's just what the article (in the UK Daily Mail, IIRC) reported.

I imagine that Nolita thinks that they'll win points for seeming to care about how fashion images can contribute to an atmosphere that makes eating disorders common. Like, "Oh, I'll buy their $75 t-shirt [or whatever] because they CARE about me, the consumer, and don't want me to feel bad about myself just because their models are half a foot taller and 80 pounds lighter than me!"

This is what we're told we need to look like to not end up alone, to get ahead, to be feminine.

Too often it's not by the guy who they're probably going to spend the rest of their lives with.

Honestly, the damage is so deeply rooted in some of my family and friends it doesn't matter who they're taking to bed or living with or employing or working for. In scenarios like that I think it's woman on woman pressure, as in the woman on herself.

Ugh. I had more thoughts but someone walked past my cube wearing perfume, and now I have nothing but a migraine. I'm going home.

Honestly, the damage is so deeply rooted in some of my family and friends it doesn't matter who they're taking to bed or living with or employing or working for. In scenarios like that I think it's woman on woman pressure, as in the woman on herself.

I don't mean an influence from a specific man or men in their lives. I mean in a male dominant society. And I think a lot of woman on woman pressure is lashing out at someone who isn't conforming to what is expected of us. I think women being hard on themselves is even more specifically patriarchal pressure.

There is a bunch of consumerist stuff in there too, but the specific image we're required to live up to is pure male fantasy.

I've seen the Nolita poster, and it is scary as hell.

I read an article about that campaign that says the woman is not a model, but is a 27-year-old who has had anorexia for 14 years, and appeared on the billboard to "demonstrate how dangerous the disease is."

On the blog where I saw the poster (Pandagon, I think?), most of the commenters who had experience with eating disorders agreed that it would almost certainly be embraced on pro-ana forums as "thinspiration," and was unlikely to serve as a warning to anyone who wasn't already aware that anorexia is a dangerous disease. So uh, yeah. Oops.

(And I almost just wrote "bad advert, no biscuit" before realizing what poor taste that would be. Bad advert, MORE biscuits! And then a sandwich!)

(And I almost just wrote "bad advert, no biscuit" before realizing what poor taste that would be. Bad advert, MORE biscuits! And then a sandwich!)

Ok, but that was funny.

I guess I figure the patriarchal part of the equation is...not negligible by impact, but I ignore it because it cannot be addressed on the same scale as the one on which it operates.

But I'm tired and hurty and crabby and unable to reason and discuss civilly. So I'm out for a little.

I guess I figure the patriarchal part of the equation is...not negligible by impact, but I ignore it because it cannot be addressed on the same scale as the one on which it operates.

If I understand you correctly, I agree, except with the ignoring.

I hope you feel better, and I think you've been perfectly civil.

I'm leaving work and going to see Mr. Jane for Lennon's birthday, so I too am out.

TiVo alert for ita: [link]

I agree, except with the ignoring.

I don't feel I can address it, since it's a beast that's bigger than anyone I know. On an individual scale, I've seen women being worse to women than the men in their lives are, and relatively speaking that's where my attention goes.

Women often complain about their weight around this one friend of mine--he's hugely exercise-conscious, and although he doesn't eat as well as he should, he knows just what he's doing wrong. They think they've found an ally in anti-fatness, but he just shrugs and says "I like women bigger." Surprisingly often, when the women complaining about themselves are asked, their boyfriends like them bigger.

That's just not enough.

Which is 180° from what I'd expected. The value system is either totally internal or totally impersonal.

Thanks, Tom. Just reading the website is lyrical. I wonder if one day I can own a real samurai sword. And if I owned one, how I'd stop myself from trying to cut off people's heads.