Young Simon: So... how'd the Independents cut us off? Young River: They were using dinosaurs.

'Safe'


Natter 54: Right here, dammit.  

Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.


Liese S. - Sep 24, 2007 8:02:53 pm PDT #2743 of 10001
"Faded like the lilac, he thought."

In a topic crossing bit of information, I always get a little bit jealous when people talk genealogy, because I'll never know more than I do right now (which is considerable, but...) because the records were destroyed in the bombing.

I do have a lovely "family secret" story, though. My grandmother's sister, my Auntie Mikie, had studied the genealogy extensively, even going to Japan, but ending in the above sad conclusion. She had some old family tree documents that were in Japanese, and we were having some trouble translating them. (I'm fourth generation, as you may remember, so my great-grandparents came from Japan to Hawaii. My grandparents' generation spoke a pidgin, with mixed Japanese and English and some Portuguese thrown in for good measure. Anyway, it was still pretty hard to read that sort of document.)

The SO & I were studying Japanese at the time (free of charge, courtesy our Japanese company and the local Japan America Society.) and the SO put some considerable time into working on the documents. He did a good job working out the syllabic translations, and the family was able to put it together from there, mostly.

But there was one entry that was just giving him fits. No matter what he did, he kept thinking, it's like someone's name was "Unknown" or "Unknowable." Finally, he brought it to our teacher and asked for her help. She, a very proper, very elegant Japanese-from-Japan lady, was delighted. She took the document home. It took a while.

When she finally did get to us with it, she told us a lot of what we already knew. Then she got to the mystery section, and hemmed and hawed. Finally she confessed that since my family line was samurai class (this was the heritage document of the samurai in question) the unknown meant that the woman in question was clearly not samurai class. Possibly a prostitute. But also possibly just someone outside the class, which clearly held just about the same amount of shame.

The SO & I and our family were thrilled to have the information; it explained a lot of the missing documentation. But she was just so mortified to have to tell us, thinking for sure we'd be dreadfully upset.

To me, it's just a wonderful romance; my lineal ancestor married for love, forsaking his entire family, and spinning off his own family tree.


DavidS - Sep 24, 2007 8:05:37 pm PDT #2744 of 10001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

Well, Matilda does bounce along as soon as she hears music so I expect she'll be a dancer.

And both JZ and I know how to waltz so we'll make sure to teach her.

Back to the wars and dead people, another wikipedia note...

The International Red Cross did relatively little to save Jews during the Holocaust and discounted reports of the organized Nazi genocide

There was widespread belief that the rumors of the death camps was largely propaganda. I don't think people could really conceive the possibility at the time.

Accusations of wartime atrocities are fairly common during wars.

Doesn't mean they aren't true, but the world hadn't seen anything like the Holocaust. People couldn't imagine it.

Even something like the previous Armenian genocide was relatively hidden from public awareness.


Scrappy - Sep 24, 2007 8:07:33 pm PDT #2745 of 10001
Life moves pretty fast. You don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.

Alibelle--how do I vote for your friends? if you give me a number, I'll call it.


meara - Sep 24, 2007 8:08:45 pm PDT #2746 of 10001

Have you fed her lemons yet, Hec?

OOH! Do it!! And video it!!


DavidS - Sep 24, 2007 8:10:28 pm PDT #2747 of 10001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

OOH! Do it!! And video it!!

She doesn't do the usual baby face when she tastes strong flavors.

She does kind of grimace and then she laughs, like, "You guys are crazy! What is this shit?"


DavidS - Sep 24, 2007 8:13:26 pm PDT #2748 of 10001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

Here's an account of Who Knew What When re: Auschwitz:

From October 1940, Witold Pilecki's network in the Auschwitz system sent reports to Warsaw, and beginning March 1941, Pilecki's reports were being forwarded via the Polish resistance to the British government in London. These reports were a principal source of intelligence on Auschwitz for the Western Allies. Pilecki hoped that either the Allies would drop arms or the Polish 1st Independent Parachute Brigade troops into the camp, or the Polish Home Army would organize an assault on it from outside. By 1943, however, he realized that no such plans existed. He escaped on the night of April 26–April 27, 1943, taking along documents stolen from the Germans. Pilecki's detailed report was sent to London, but the British authorities refused the Home Army air support for an operation to help the inmates escape. An air raid was considered too risky, and Home Army reports on Nazi atrocities at Auschwitz were deemed to be gross exaggerations. The Home Army in turn decided that it didn't have enough force to storm the camp by itself.

On April 7, 1944, two young Jewish inmates, Rudolf Vrba and Alfréd Wetzler, had escaped from the camp with detailed information about the camp's geography, the gas chambers, and the numbers being killed. The information, later called the Vrba-Wetzler report, is believed to have reached the Jewish community in Budapest by April 27. Roswell McClelland, the U.S. War Refugee Board representative in Switzerland, is known to have received a copy by mid-June, and sent it to the board's executive director on June 16, according to Raul Hilberg. [3] Information based on the report was broadcast on June 15 by the BBC and on June 20 by The New York Times. [4]

The British Prime Minister, Winston Churchill, did not see bombing as a solution, given that bombers were inaccurate and would also kill prisoners on the ground. The land war would have to be won first. Bombers were used against German cities and to carpet-bomb the front lines. Concerning the concentration camps, he wrote to his Foreign Secretary on 11 July 1944: "... all concerned in this crime who may fall into our hands, including the people who only obeyed orders by carrying out these butcheries, should be put to death..." [6] In August 1944, 60 tons of supplies were flown to assist the uprising in Warsaw and, considering the dropping accuracy at that time, were to be dropped "into the south-west quarter of Warsaw". Seven aircraft reached the city. [7]

So it was pretty late in the war by the time it was verified. By that point the focus was on winning the war outright.


P.M. Marc - Sep 24, 2007 8:16:01 pm PDT #2749 of 10001
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

Lillian tried Paul's lemongrass dry soda today. Pushed it away firmly and stuck out her tongue. Not a fan.

Is that weird for here? My sister's ears were pierced at that age.

It's kind of weird, yes.


DavidS - Sep 24, 2007 8:17:34 pm PDT #2750 of 10001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

In Miami, it was very common for Cubans to pierce their babies ears.

So I grew up seeing babies with gold studs in their ears.


Trudy Booth - Sep 24, 2007 8:18:58 pm PDT #2751 of 10001
Greece's financial crisis threatens to take down all of Western civilization - a civilization they themselves founded. A rather tragic irony - which is something they also invented. - Jon Stewart

Pierced baby ears seem fairly common among Latinos and Italian Americans around here.


BigDuluth - Sep 24, 2007 8:20:42 pm PDT #2752 of 10001
"I am the all-singing, all-dancing crap of the world"

So it was pretty late in the war by the time it was verified.

Well I guess we have to figure in the rate and amount of communication back then. Today it'd be more like

h4nuk41920: Dewd hav U s33n GodFriend1337???
t0r4hguy240: I herd he gaWt gr4bb3d by N4zi's!!!
h4nuk41920: Oh Sh1t!!11 C4ll 0th3r C0untr13s Fast!!!

That said instant messenger won't ever really reach any such standard of reliability.
edit: not to be confused for a haulocaust joke... that ain't cool